Is this nonce behaviour and what do I do

[Opinionsprettyplease]

• I've just collected dd(10) from a playdate at her friend's house; her friend lives with her mum. Dropped her off fully dressed, collected her four hours later and she was in PJ's, after having a bath with her friend. Apparently the mum put them in the bath after they'd got sweaty playing nintento.
• on sleepovers there, the mum has allowed DD come into her bed in the early mornings, when friend has woken early and gone into her mum's, leaving DD alone; DD has followed and they've all snoozed together for a few hours. (I'm not 100% sure about this, but planning to question dd about it today)
• she has a "special cuddle" with DD (and her own DD) whereby she pulls dd's head into her boobs and snuggles her. It's all fun and games to DD.
• she is constantly pushing food on DD, not just during playdates, but sending it home with her afterwards, sending it into school for her via her daughter. We're talking things like big chunks of chicken pie because "she loves my chicken pie"

I've known the mum for about 5 years, as long as the girls have been friends. She has a creepy co-dependant relationship with her own daughter, lavishing constant doting attention on her and treating/keeping her like a baby, and all the above behaviour is part of this. She seems to see her behaviour as mothering and completely natural and harmless.

I've always felt she crossed lines, but dd loves her and I thought I was just jealous of their relationship. I know I'll get a bashing for letting this go on, I've always struggled with boundaries for reasons that are a whole other story.

But the boobs. And giving a visiting child a bath on a four-hour playdate. I just can't imagine a scenario where I'd do that.
I'm thinking that if she was a man I'd be reporting her for predatory behaviour. Is this that different? She's still using DD for her own gratification, even if it's not sexual?

I had lessened contact in the last year or so, but am stopping it altogether now (not with the friend but with the mum, she can have playdate here or at friend's dad's house.) I'm talking to DD this evening. But:

• I know DD will kick off; I've half-heartedly objected to their sleepovers a few times and DD has been really upset and I've gone back to thinking that it's just my own insecurities and allowed things to continue. I can't think how to explain in a way that she'll understand and believe that this behaviour is not on, and not just me being jealous and a killjoy.
• I can't decide whether or not to contact the mum and explain why we're cutting ties. I feel it would be the most efficient thing to do, but an a bit wary of her, she's surely psychologically unsound.

Thank you for reading and I really do appreciate any advice.

YABU: it's overbearing but just have a firm word with her.

YANBU: cut contact, she's dangerous to dd

Instincts are there to be followed, imo. If you're uncomfortable with the situation then you owe it to your daughter to draw some boundaries and explain why (to your daughter), whatever the woman's intent.

Follow your instincts. Your 10 year old should not be in bed with another adult. Your child should not be snuggling the breasts of any adult either. I’m not sure how to address this with your child, but you will need to explain it somehow. To the mother I would be clear: you’ve crossed important boundaries with my child, she won’t be coming near you again.

I’d probably just try and naturally distance your DD from the mother without making it a big deal.

I’d become super busy whenever they wanted a sleepover/play date at her house. Offer to let them play or sleep over at your house or at the Dad’s, if you are ok with him.

I’d also strongly encourage other friendships and enrol DD in some activities to help make her too busy to see the friend and to help her make new ones. Eg sports, perhaps something like netball, or soccer with training and also games?

My child would not be with any adult did any of the behaviours once. I wouldn't give a damn about kicking off.

If this was a man what would you do ? Women can be abusers too and unfortunately our society doesn't identify it as often.

Seems very odd behaviour to me. I would not be comfortable with this. As above pp says ,just be busy if she asks.

I think some people have weird boundaries and you are absolutely able to stand up to them. It doesn't necessarily equal paedophilia, but if it makes you uncomfortable that's enough.

Even if you did agree to any play dates in future it would be extremely reasonable to say no overnights and that as the children are now too old to be getting undressed and having baths, you are happy to pick DD up if she gets sweaty.

Christ that’s not ok; I’d never bath another child without parents permission and even then I just would rather not. All of it together is very strange so I agree I wouldn’t be allowing your DC to go over there and at 10 I’d be honest with my DD that I don’t like what the mum has done

I am usually the world’s least paranoid person but this is ringing loud alarm bells for me too. There is some serious boundary crossing here. If she was much younger I might try to explain it away as the mother trying to treat the child as she would her own child for innocent reasons but even then it would be a stretch (a bath if they were 4 and had got genuinely filthy would be one thing, but because they’re a bit sweaty?!). As it is they are approaching early puberty and it is becoming very inappropriate.

I would be stepping back and not allowing sleepovers or play dates , only meet ups in public situations at most.

Ok initially I missed your daughter's age and voted YABU assuming she was 4/5 and needed some home comforts at a sleepover.

But just seen your daughter is TEN. There's no reason whatsover for the "special cuddle" or bed snuggles or for the girls to be bathing together. YANBU - trust your gut on this.

There’s some serious boundary issues here, keep your DD away. She might complain now but she will understand when she’s older.

if you don’t stop this she won’t understand why you let this nonsense carry on when she’s older.

The bath thing is bizarre. Not sure how many 10 year olds would be happy having a bath with their friend

I would not be comfortable with my 10yr old sharing a bath. Girls can start puberty around the age of 8 and that is when body/naked boundaries should be enforced imo.

I wouldn't let her go to that house again, doesn't matter how much DD kicks off. If the friends DM asks why then tell her straight - giving a nonfamilial 10yr a bath is SS weird.

These things are like the proverbial boiling a frog: in the beginning everything is innocent but the inappropriateness increases in gradual increments so you get used to it and it goes further than it should before you suddenly wake up and think ‘bloody hell, what have I just allowed to happen here?’

Thanks for all the replies.
@PTSDBarbiegirl I've really only put this together objectively in my head last night (playdate was yesterday) and I agree that I should have acted sooner.
I'm glad people agree to keep away but still not sure I'm even happy for her to chat to DD in the street. But maybe I'm just over reacting now, in response to my doziness so far?!

I wouldn’t say shes necessarily dangerous - more likely inappropriate with poor boundaries.

I wouldn’t want my daughter to stay there or have a close relationship with her.
Warm chicken pie in school bags is not safe either!

You dropped her off for a playdate at 5am??

Very weird and inappropriate and you need to make all this very clear to your DD.

You have allowed things like getting in to an adults’ bed, being given “special cuddles” and getting undressed and into the bath with another child (an adult watching?) to become normalised for your 10 year old.
None of these things are normal or appropriate and it’s making your child very vulnerable that she thinks it is and will go along with it.
Even if this adult doesn’t have bad intentions, the next adult who asks your DD to take her clothes off or get into their bed for a special cuddle might do.

You need to go back to basics with your DD about privacy, maybe look at the NSPCC pants stuff.

At ten my daughter would not have got in a bath with her friend or snuggled into her friends mothers boobs.

Is your daughter meek and mild and wanting to please others? If so you need to empower her to speak up and have boundaries.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel every single point in OP is a red flag, from the beginning. Hence, my comment.

Are you certain she 'gave' you DD a bath?

My DD who is 11 has regular sleepovers here, and the girls often spend an hour in the bathroom messing around with makeup and stuff, and usually having a bath to clean up.

I know nothing of it except the squealing and giggling and wouldn't dream of going near the bathroom whilst the kids were in there.

I'd be mortified if a girl went home and told their parents I'd given them a bath!

@GivingYourHeadAWobble ha no the playdate was yesterday afternoon, I suppose I half formed the post on my head last night!

Oh, X posted.

I wonder if this is becoming more common, as this is about the 3rd thread in the last few weeks about women bathing other people's DDs?

I suspect, if your daughter was to mention any of this at school, it would be seen as a welfare concern and logged.

@DrJoanAllenby @NaughtPoppy yes this is my fear, and the reason most adults would never do these things, no matter how innocently intended. It's like not asking kids to keep secrets, no matter how harmless; it's the wrong message.