Is this nonce behaviour and what do I do

[Opinionsprettyplease]

• I've just collected dd(10) from a playdate at her friend's house; her friend lives with her mum. Dropped her off fully dressed, collected her four hours later and she was in PJ's, after having a bath with her friend. Apparently the mum put them in the bath after they'd got sweaty playing nintento.
• on sleepovers there, the mum has allowed DD come into her bed in the early mornings, when friend has woken early and gone into her mum's, leaving DD alone; DD has followed and they've all snoozed together for a few hours. (I'm not 100% sure about this, but planning to question dd about it today)
• she has a "special cuddle" with DD (and her own DD) whereby she pulls dd's head into her boobs and snuggles her. It's all fun and games to DD.
• she is constantly pushing food on DD, not just during playdates, but sending it home with her afterwards, sending it into school for her via her daughter. We're talking things like big chunks of chicken pie because "she loves my chicken pie"

I've known the mum for about 5 years, as long as the girls have been friends. She has a creepy co-dependant relationship with her own daughter, lavishing constant doting attention on her and treating/keeping her like a baby, and all the above behaviour is part of this. She seems to see her behaviour as mothering and completely natural and harmless.

I've always felt she crossed lines, but dd loves her and I thought I was just jealous of their relationship. I know I'll get a bashing for letting this go on, I've always struggled with boundaries for reasons that are a whole other story.

But the boobs. And giving a visiting child a bath on a four-hour playdate. I just can't imagine a scenario where I'd do that.
I'm thinking that if she was a man I'd be reporting her for predatory behaviour. Is this that different? She's still using DD for her own gratification, even if it's not sexual?

I had lessened contact in the last year or so, but am stopping it altogether now (not with the friend but with the mum, she can have playdate here or at friend's dad's house.) I'm talking to DD this evening. But:

• I know DD will kick off; I've half-heartedly objected to their sleepovers a few times and DD has been really upset and I've gone back to thinking that it's just my own insecurities and allowed things to continue. I can't think how to explain in a way that she'll understand and believe that this behaviour is not on, and not just me being jealous and a killjoy.
• I can't decide whether or not to contact the mum and explain why we're cutting ties. I feel it would be the most efficient thing to do, but an a bit wary of her, she's surely psychologically unsound.

Thank you for reading and I really do appreciate any advice.

YABU: it's overbearing but just have a firm word with her.

YANBU: cut contact, she's dangerous to dd

I think this is good advice in this situation.

Had I not had an acquaintance/ kind of friend who was exactly the same I would be concerned. The kids all love her to bits and she’s genuinely that type of person, there’s nothing odd in it the way you’re thinking however if you’re not comfortable with it then you need to speak to her.

OP take heed of the other posts - this isn't normal and while no harm has been done •yet• (although as a pp has said your DD may be highly uncomfortable already and you not doing anything sends a signal it's ok.) again as pointed out by a pp the next adult who suggest "snuggles" may intend harm. Or her behaviour coud escalate.

Make excuses if you need to but nip this in the bud NOW

Having read Charles Spencer's school account, I am far more cautious about these type of scenarios now. If nothing else, it is teaching her to allow contact.

I'm so sorry this happened to you

The scenario makes me uncomfortable, does this woman have a live in partner or boyfriend on the scene?
The thing with the food is really weird, at best ridiculous at worst almost groomy. She seems to be wanting to build some sort of bond with you DC

Go with your gut.

So if it was a man bathing your daughter and having 'special cuddles' you would report without any doubts. But because it's a woman you're dithering. Words fail me.

You can speak to NSPCC about this for advice

Sounds like she never had a second child & is co-opting your daughter into the role, as she loves “mothering”. Is her DD father in the scene? She definitely over-compensating for some perceived lack in her daughter’s home life. It’s not okay.

Very strange. A lot of 10yr olds have periods these days, putting them in the bath is a gross invasion of thier privacy. Looking back there's no way I would have accepted being naked in front of my friend and her mum at that age. How the fuck did they get sweaty playing Nintendo anyway.

Very strange having both girls in bed and rubbing her boobs on them. Similar behaviour from a man would get him arrested.

Worried that your daughter is ok with this, is she very immature or malleable? Or do you think it's more like grooming?

If she were my child there'd be snowballs chance in hell of her ever going there again.

That is fucked up

100%

This.

If this was a dad, you would have already reported this. To me there is no difference.

Even If there is nothing sexual going on, your daughters boundaries are being eroded.

An adult walking in and out of the room whilst she is naked in the bath.

"Special Cuddles" like WTAF!

Kids don't get that sweaty from playing Nintendo that a bath is warranted and as it was the mother's suggestion, this leads me to believe there is something more sinster to this.

Stop all playdates and sleep overs and reduce contact with child and mother and do not let your child go to the father's house, none of what has happened is normal behaviour, your child needs to make new friends

Your child is being groomed

As someone else has said contact the NSPCC for advice or your local authority and remember it’s your role to keep your daughter safe.

Thing is OP, whether it’s actually deviant behaviour or not is totally irrelevant- if you are uncomfortable with it, then no more sleep
overs. Thats all there is to it. You don’t have to explain yourself at all. You are protecting your child. Reduce contact with her mum and stay strong. DD is busy, every time.

Utter no contact from now on. Different secondary schools if possible, but my child would not be allowed any contact. Make your concerns known to the school and ask for them to be kept totally separate
Talk to your daughter about why in an age appropriate way -all she has to say is "I am not allowed to be around you", and "its private" when other friends ask.

My children are still very young so I know very little about 10 year olds, but are 10 year old girls really happy to get in the bath with their friends? They are pre-pubescent at this age, with a lot of them having already started puberty! I would have been mortified if this were even suggested at age 10!

OP, was your daughter honestly happy to get into the bath with her friend? I’d be having a firm chat with her about boundaries and body safety ASAP.

Your daughter is being groomed. The kind of dithering and hand wringing you are displaying is exactly how they get away with it. You are being groomed. End this nonsense now.

Something certainly seems fishy here, and PPs posting their own stories are exactly what I knew would happen. For the love of god don't post fodder for the hairy handed brigade.

This!!!

you’ve listed so many things that would give me the creep OP

Also OP get serious about lessons on what is private and what isn’t. You need to teach your daughter to be cautious and look after herself. Teach her to say no to a bath with another person, no to taking her underwear off, no to letting anyone touch her. Teach her to tell you straight away. There is lots of information online about these lessons. Give her the tools to stay safe whilst you remove from your side.