To ask what you are doing to raise good men?

[HuckleberryBlackcurrant]

I have 2 sons, 7 and 4.

I read so many posts on here involving men who are useless, misogynistic, abusive etc. I am thankful my husband is NOT like this, but I have been thinking a lot about what steps I can take to ensure I raise kind, respectful and safe men. I would be so ashamed of one of my sons ended up treating a woman poorly.

Obviously an advantage is having their Dad as a positive male role model.

Other things I have been doing are teaching them to clean up after themselves (clearing dishes, picking up dirty clothes, wiping up wee splatters). But is there more I could and should be doing?

This is it in a nutshell.

I'm laughing at all the earnest posts from those with sons under 10. Of course, all the conversations around manners, respect & equality are important.

But in terms of the men they become, it's an ongoing process of instilling the values that matter, and also accepting the teenage years are very challenging for boys, in terms of their susceptibility to external influences & peer groups. The importance of a strong supportive school environment shouldn't be under-estimated, as well as good male role models

Who commits the overwhelming majority of violent and sexual crime?

Modelling from both parents is important.

When they are older, making it really clear that they are responsible for their own contraception and they need to use condoms every time unless they are actively trying for a child. You also need to have really clear conversations around consent. The cup of tea YouTube video is excellent.

Discussions at the dinner table about the gender pay gap, what a 50-50 relationship really looks like (ie not just finances). Actively look for examples of relevant issues in the media and bring them up and discuss

My son is 15, I talk to him about important issues such as porn, that chinless prick Andrew Tate etc. Hopefully it goes in. I also refuse to be the person who automatically does everything in the house, even if that’s tough with my husband’s hours at work. He seems to be pleasant so far but who knows when he’s alone with friends. We try our best as mothers and they’ve got to run with it. On the flip side I also teach my daughter not to put up with a load of shit, as I know women who do and men get a bit of a free pass.

I teach 17yo’s and with the nature of the work we have lots of conversations about anything and everything, they’re all pretty level. I wonder if the number of posts on here about shit men is mainly about a certain generation of shit men, who were parented by Boomers who in turn were parented by parents who had Victorian attitudes (my grandfather was born in 1910!). I’d hope we’ve managed to have some impact in changing the next generation.

How teen boys treat and act in front of their mums, and how they treat girls in private, are two VERY separate things in my experience. I’ve been treated very badly by boys whose mums would say they’re lovely, considerate young men.

💯

And yes I will have incredibly tight rules around screen use as I believe pornography is part of the issue.

And this.

I am far stricter around phone use with my nearly 15 yo DS, than I was with my (now) nearly 17 yo DD. I've seen some of the stuff shared on Snapchat, and have been really proactive in managing his use, checking accounts regularly and so on. I am learning not to be naive.

Aaaah that’s the fault of their mums… thanks I didn’t realise!

I teach them to be really empathetic towards animals. I figure a boy who restores tired bees, judges other children for chasing birds and picks up litter so that wildlife doesn't choke on it is less likely to grow up to hit his wife.

I need to do more on this, it's a continual WIP. I feel it's really important

I agree that it's not about manners, anyone can learn to show manners. Actually some very dangerous and sexist men are very charming and have great manners. That's why they suck you in.

All these muns of young children who know exactly how it should be done do make me laugh. Teach them good manners and all will be well 🤣 IME the sleaziest men have lovely charming manners, when they choose to use them.

The other practical thing is stay involved in your teen's life. It's harder as they move to grunting stage, but knowing the names of their friends, exactly where they are going - and making sure they do, what's going on in school, what interests them, is important to get a sense of what their influences are.

You may be doing an amazing job of talking about equality, consent, fairness, respect for women - honestly as a teen, their primary influence will not be you so you have to keep on top of what's going on.

That's work, actually, and not always rewarding. Some days they'll engage, some days they won't, but you've got to keep at it. Knowing the detail of their life really matters.

Exactly.

My ex adored his mother. Was very good to her, and in general a decent & kind person (you would have thought) to most people. My parents loved him.

His manners & outward respect gave no indication of the abusive marriage he made me endure.

Lots of what people above have said. Plus when old enough talked to him about porn, trafficking and exploitation of girls and young women and how vile and abusive it is. I really do think that porn is at the heart of so much dreadful behaviour towards women. It instills a sense of entitlement to our bodies and to think they own us.

I've (we) raised both of my kids (boy and girl) to be feminists.

Challenged language and stereotypes. Small things like the word 'bossy' is not allowed in my house (if used is always challenged!) as it's always said when referring negatively to women who have their shit together. Never men. Small things like that make them think about ingrained poor male behaviour and language.

He had a baby doll and pushchair when he was tiny. He asked for it so he could,be like his lovely dad.

Shared stories of the misogyny I've experienced first hand so he can see the impact.

He's now in his 20s and a lovely respectful young man with lots of female friends.

Knew I'd cracked it when we had a conversation when he was about 17 - about consent. He told me that some people were filming each other giving consent before having sex so they had evidence if any accusations were made afterwards. I asked him what he thought about it. "If you have to film someone giving consent youre having sex with the wrong people" was his very sage reply. I love him so much.

Left his lazy father and met a real man.

I am a single parent, so somewhat challenged in the good male role model department.
To be honest, I just get on with parenting. If DS wants to talk about people he knows liking Andrew Tate (not so much now), we have a conversation and dissect that, the same if he comes home and tells me that his friends have made sexist comments he was not comfortable with. Actually, that brings to mind he also told me one time when his dad was being sexist and DS challenged him on it. But he also talks about when he has encountered casual homophobia and things like that so I think it is about recognising this and not being a bystander.

I am pretty open in my views about how he needs to grow up to be a good man who treats people well and what that looks like, but mainly when it comes up naturally in conversation.

I agree with this, not holding sons to lower standards than daughters, and setting a good example to both in what is acceptable in a healthy relationship. Also teaching both of them that being in a relationship isn't important, they don't need to settle until they feel ready. Not so much my son as he is younger, but some friends of my 18yo dd are making uni plans to suit their boyfriends, and spending every other weekend crying, because society is so adamant that they should be in a relationship.

Encouraging good manners and behaviour (regardless of sex)
Having a positive male role model.
Having a positive female role model (possibly a bit controversial depending on circumstances but basically not being a mum martyr or giving the impression that Mum is the default parent).

There are also a few articles online about the importance of educating our sons, regardless of how nice they may be, about the fact that there are circumstances in which women feel vulnerable and what men can do to help this. For example, behaviour they can exhibit when coming across a woman they don't know who is walking alone at night, to minimise any perceived threat (for older children, obviously).

26% Think YABU - and therein lies the problem, because it creates this…...

“some friends of my 18yo dd are making uni plans to suit their boyfriends, and spending every other weekend crying, because society is so adamant that they should be in a relationship.” - This so sad.

You all sound like fabulous mothers and as a mother of two young adult DDs it’s good to hear. They have come across some awfully behaved men and thankfully some lovely ones. They often say that DH is hard to for boyfriends to live up to. The interesting thing is he had an awful example- his dad being chauvinistic and his mum being very passive. He and his brothers are all fantastic modern men and fathers.

My ds is 15.

I left my ex when ds was two because ex morphed after I became pregnant, and I didn't want ds growing up thinking drunkenness and sexism are normal.

So DS has grown up in a household where he sees a woman being equal to any man every day. It would never occur to him that a woman couldn't drive or do anything else as well as a man.

We treat each other with kindness, consideration & respect. We consult each other on most things, and share tasks. He carries shopping without being asked.

At 15 he is familiar with the washing machine, dishwasher, and loo brush. Less so, the hoover or the squeegy for cleaning the shower. He can cook basic meals, and understands nutrition and cleanliness. He knows basic first aid.

He's going through a teen phase of throwing all his clothes on the floor at the moment, but tidies up if I remind him.

He thinks Andrew Tate is a knob. The internet's influence is insidious though. Last summer he was upset about something and finally admitted he was worried that girls will only go out with men who have £80k a year & a BMW. Thankfully he's a mathematician, and I pointed out that if that were so, 90% of men would be single. That seemed to satisfy him. 😁He has common sense and is calm and logical.

Best of all, I like him.

It's not just a woman's job, but the reality is that vast numbers of boys are reared by single mothers. By definition, these boys should be being brought up to treat women well in large numbers. This isn't the case, though.
Many boys don't have dads on the scene at all, some because dad is a useless shit, some because mothers don't want him around. Boys then often look elsewhere for role models.
There is no 'script'. People do change as they mature both for good and bad. Mental ill health is a big problem and influences people in the way they behave.
Adults need to think about how they behave and own their life choices.
We are all responsible for our own behaviour.

I read once it's more about what the dad does that influences conceptions about gender roles. Who picks up the domestic duties etc. So I'm making sure dh pulls his weight at home. (Im Sahp so finding that balance is tough) but I'm happy to leave him do the dishwasher, dinner and laundry if it means my boys will become good men. It's tough but someone's gotta do it.

yes, raise your children. Not just boys. To be good humans. But listen to @EarringsandLipstick that’s the real life story of young people. Manners are nice but not what is going to make your child a ‘good’ person/partner. Once they are 14/5 it’s all about peer group/school/outside influences that you need to be aware and involved in. Keep talking to them. But having a good relationship. Whether that’s with your partner or if you are on your own with friends etc. is key. Not letting anyone treat you badly while the children are growing up is probably the biggest thing as a parent you can do. After that it’s about knowing their peers and hoping they’ve picked good kids to be mates with. Fuck manners and washing dishes. That’s not where it is at.

We have raised ds’s to treat other people well and be respectful. They aren’t at the long term relationship stage yet but we model the importance of shared values and expectations. Children often take their experiences of their parents relationship into adulthood. It would be the same if we had daughters ( the question of how to raise ‘good’ women is rarely asked, which is frustrating as women can be *holes too).