To dislike men who seek out foreign brides

[Hartley99]

There are quite a few documentaries about this on YouTube. The guy is usually ugly or boring or nerdy (usually all three). He claims to be ‘looking for love,’ when in reality, of course, he’s looking for a sexual partner. So he goes online and searches for girls in poor countries - often Thailand or Russia. In almost every case the girl is younger and/or much more attractive than him.

Recently, there was a documentary on channel 4, and I ended up having an argument with someone at work about it. They thought the whole thing was ‘sweet’ and funny and couldn’t see anything wrong. To them it made sense. The guy got to have sex with a girl out of his league, and the girl got to move to a richer country with more opportunities. To me it just seemed revolting. However you spin it, they are taking advantage of her poverty. They know that she wouldn’t look twice at them in any other circumstance. Apparently, after the invasion of Ukraine there was a massive spike in men looking for Ukrainian brides online. I mean that says it all. Or am I being uptight and judgemental?

Who do you think people might be jealous of @DistinguishedSocialCommentator ? The men who marry the women (unlikely that a group of predominantly women would be coveting these mens brides for themselves) or the women who have the dubious honour of marrying them? Because I'm struggling to see anything to envy in either party. And again, what about the older women? How does that change what these men are doing? For what it's worth, it's a false comparator anyway. Maleness brings with it certain inate protections against exploitation by women. And while it can obviously happen, there is nowhere near the prevalence, or the potential severity.

I agree. We had a patient at work, where dad had clearly 'bought' his wife. She barely spoke English. Their relationship seemed transactional.

Sure it's seedy but it's been going on forever. How many a young girl was made to marry a rich man of years to save her family from debt? How he looked or even treated her was secondary to his bank balance or size of estate. Marriage has been transactional certainly as long as it has ever been about love, and will always be so.

And I think you’re being sexist.

Just because you wouldn’t want to marry one of the men in question doesn’t mean that other women wouldn’t.

You say they ‘don’t want to put in the work to make themselves attractive’. By whose measure? Yours? You’re not part of the equation here. It’s up to the woman to choose what she wants.

“Would a young handsome man be considering this kind of woman?” Given the number of young men happy to marry larger ladies or ones I personally do not find attractive - I’d say yes. Because it’s the choice of the individual and men are not the shallow horrible creatures that Mumsnet likes to pretend they are.

You say all the men just want to dominate a women. That’s misandrist. As I said earlier, statistically there will be some. Just like there are within the UK’s borders. But making sweeping assertions about the motivations of an entire group based on projection of your own viewpoint is simply wrong.

You treat the women as desperate and vulnerable, as though all those women are hard done by folks with no options whatsoever. They’re not. They are adult humans with the ability to make their own choices. And they do.

You can say the same about sex. We still have laws in place to restrict prostitution due to the exploitation and harm it can cause. I think importation of foreign brides is more akin to prostitution than anything else. Literally buying the services of someone else that is in desperate need of the money.

I also think from an immigration perspective it is hugely questionable. There are many millions of people that would love to come and live in the UK so why are we even contemplating letting in these women who are ultimately just economic migrants when we aren't allowing genuine refugees.

I find it distasteful. It's more the "bride shopping" attitude that I don't like. The idea that some men who find wives abroad have, where they think women are livestock at a market to be prodded and poked and inspected to make sure they "meet requirements" before they are purchased. And yes, some of these men do go about finding a wife this way. I know of at 2 from my parents rural town and 1 collegues abusive ex H. All 3 men are highly unpleasant in different ways.

My colleagues ex was emotionally, physically and sexually abusive. He told her he expected her to keep the house and accept and accomodate his desires (sex whenever he wanted it in whatever position he wanted). After years of absuse she left him and then he trawled pretty much the whole of the OLD world looking for a subservient wife who did as she was told and be grateful that he desired her sexually (something he told my collegue she wasn't doing). When none would put up with him he went abroad and bought himself a wife from the Philippines. According to my colleagues dc (who the court have ordered have to see their father despite his behaviour) the wife is pretty much a slave. She doesn't go anywhere unattended, doesn't seem to have any friends. She washes all the clothes, cleans the house, cooks the food, ferries the children everywhere when he has them, collects the children from school and takes to weekend activites so dad can work or have a lay in or watch tv and is a good subservient little wife. The ex H plays Disney dad, allows the children to leave everything a mess, not put laundry in the laundry basket, eat what they like, do as they please ect as the wife will clear it all away, cook whatever they like at whatever hour they want and wash all their clothes. He wanted a maid with sexual services and bought one. The wife wanted financial security and a better life.

The other 2 men from my parents town, are also unpleasant. One has a Thai wife and the other a Russian wife. Again both divorced, seemed to trail through the OLD world but never have anything last more than 6 months. They both click their fingers at restaurant and cafe staff. Treat women as subservient in general. Extremely tight fisted (one of the ex wives told the whole pub after her divorce that he kept a running tally to the penny of what she owed him. Nothing was a treat, if they went out for dinner and he paid, he would add it to her debt). Refuse to do any housework or help their partner with anything. They are both known locally as very unpleasant people in general. One of them told the ex wife (the same one that kept financial tallys) that her job was to maintain her looks and figure and provide him with children so he can pass the family business to them. He expected her to return to her slim, toned size 8 self within months of giving birth. When she got down to a 10 he told her she had no excuse because celebrities do it and you don't work so that is your job. He also insisted she had a planned c-section so she didn't go "baggy" down there for him.

There are of course the outliers, the ones who meet online and fall in love. But for many it is a transactional process.

Marriage has always been a 'market' with the poor, needy or unscrupulous hoping to improve their circumstances. There's nothing 'sweet' about it.

It's almost always men looking for women, although it does happen the other way. I have a friend who hit her 30s, got very depressed about the men she met in the UK, and took to holidaying in Alaska where the ratio of men to women was definitely in her favour.

My grandmother always said 'fair exchange is no robbery'. I think it's more than the sex, they want a woman they view as subservient to cater to their every whim.

If the woman also agrees to go with these "disgusting men" in a clear transparent way - how is that exploitation? Nor is it misogynistic either - another term often wrongly applied

I dislike the "foreign bride" concept but both sides are usually equally guilty. The UK guy buying a wife is clearly exploiting someone who is desperate to come here, but the wife is equally in the wrong because they are using their body to be able to move to a better country. Effectively it's the same as the relationship between a prostitute and a regular client, one is selling their body and the other is buying it. Both sides are a bit creepy.

I know one guy who got a serious illness at 50 and went to hospital in Singapore for three months; when he came out, he had ditched his wife and moved on to a woman who worked there. She was 35.

Fast forward nearly 20 years, he has a son (she got pregnant PDQ) who is still in education while he's at retirement age. His ex-wife doesn't speak to him anymore and nor do his adult children from that first marriage. I do not think his life is a bed of roses.

Not sure who is exploiting who at this point; I think you are bloody daft if you believe that someone young enough to be your child, from a different culture, with no real shared interests, is so overawed by your powerful sexual magnetism that they are head over heels in love and not viewing the relationship in terms of its economic potential. That would also go for women. I suppose the difference is that 50yo women are more likely (but not guaranteed) to understand that they are limited in their choice of partner and know that if something looks too good to be true, it probably is.

YANBU. The only guy I knew who did this was an old creep. During the time I knew him he never had a GF and spoke about women in a demeaning way. He also had a crush on a friend of mine who had an amazing figure and he was borderline stalkerish with her, but this was in the 90s and that kind of shit was largely tolerated with an eye roll and a 'Oh, that's just John' qualifier.

I later found out he'd married a much younger, much more attractive, Thai woman. Bleugh! I guess it's a quid pro quo though and many of the women know what they're getting out of it and decide the deal is acceptable. Yes, they are vulnerable due to poverty and lack of opportunities, but there are young western women who marry wealthy older guys for financial reasons too. As the OP says, low quality western guy gets hot young bride from XX and she gets to live in the west and have access to a lifestyle that she wouldn't get at home and possibly support her family, but it's a form of prostitution IMO.

If a woman agrees to work in a sweat shop for pennies an hour, is she not being exploited, provided her employer is clear and transparent about the wage offered and the work required?

Well to use your example - no it's not really - if she willingly chooses to work at the place for the agreed wage.

At the end of the day there is always a choice - to suggest there isn't one is simply not realistic

I saw something on YouTube, can’t remember who it was, advising men against going to the far east in search of a bride. Turns out the house he built on a huge parcel of land he purchased automatically belongs to the woman in a marriage. All I could think was -aww, diddums.

Also, I knew a middle aged, divorced man who was definitely not a catch. He married someone he met in Central America, because apparently she was compliant, uneducated and “they know how the treat a man”.

Turned out she was sufficiently educated to understand the Spanish laws around domestic abuse. Of course he didn’t need to learn Spanish while living and working in Madrid so when he tried to claim his wife was crazy it didn’t go over well.

I agree with this due to the fact that having spent a fair amount of time in Southeast Asia, let me tell you, the women there, in cities, towns and rural areas are some of the most intelligent, sharp and quick witted women I have ever come across. They know what they want and my goodness they throw everything at it. They are definitely less hung up on looks.
Thats me generalising but seems alot of posters on here are.
I despise the Western ' do as we say' morality police.
Gone are the days where its mainly 60 year old men 'buying' a younger woman. It's far more common now for younger, financially successful men to seek these women. They are often less conventionally attractive and socially awkward. Let's be honest, the dating world is as tough on that kind of man as it is on women. I say it all the time but the online dating world only benefits good looking, pushy men with the gift of the gab, dickheads basically.
Again I'm generalising but it's never as black and white as it seems.

I'll apologise now for all the commas 😬 I don't feel very well and my head is fuzzy!

There are usually choices, yes. But exploitation happens when the choices open to a person are all poor, and someone in a more privileged position sees the opportunity to benefit themselves by offering them what may be the least worst option. If you know a person is doing something not because they have a desire to do it, but only or primarily because the alternative is severe hardship, starvation, living in a war zone, then you are exploiting that person. Whether that's transparent or not is irrelevant.

The women are also getting something out of it aswell, they are all as bad as each other ….it’s transactional

I remember seeing a clip from (I think) a tv show with a similar topic.

A young, not so attractive but apparently wealthy young man was with an attractive Russian (? I think) girlfriend. They were having a conversation and he accused her of only being with him for his money. She just looked at him and said, of course I am, just like you're only with me because I'm young and pretty? You wouldn't be with me if I was fat and ugly, would you?

He was utterly GOBSMACKED that she had said this, because of course it was true, but it didn't fit his delusion that he'd snagged a hottie because she really liked him.

It's seedy and nasty whichever way you swing it.

They may be ‘happy’ but it’s exploitation, they don’t have to know or realise they are being exploited. Or even understand what exploitation is.

What about all the foreign women seeking wealthy western men to take advantage of?

YANBU. It's disgusting and predatory.

When predators go looking for victims, it is always vile, and yes, poverty adds a huge power imbalance. I agree Asian women are not the subservient fauns the stereotype makes them out to be but poverty leaves them with less choices. I also look askance when older men are marrying women younger than their kids because to me that just screams of entitlement and that they don't care who they marry as long as they are young.

But if young men are tired of being on the dating scene and find they get looked over a lot and decide to look for a wife in a country where culturally they will be considered a decent husband, I can't blame them. Loneliness is a terrible thing and why not have a companion you can build a future with if you are both honest with each other as to why you are in the relationship?

I am now in my 50s and I have to say, I think having a more business-like view to marriage is better for women. In the West, we have made it all about love - getting married shows how much you love each other. But its not, it is a legal contract and we see it time and time again, how men who persuade their partners that they don't need marriage to prove commitment or they don't believe in it, will walk away and leave a women who has financially disadvantaged herself by having children, utterly screwed. I am sure 'subservient' Asian women would think these western women utter fools.

Goodness. I never thought of that. Poor Bernard and Colin, minding their own business and suddenly coerced into marrying beautiful women their grand daughters age. Perhaps there should be a campaign to raise awareness so men can be protected from it.

@5128gap

You are clearly incapable of looking at both sides of a situation rationally