To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

I work in retail, and the amount of parents who don't engage with their children is unreal. The parents act like the children are a huge inconvenience to them, they let the kids run about, run under the stands, knock stuff off, spill drinks and food everywhere, the parents are too busy shopping for themselves, talking to their friends or on their phones. Even young toddlers are ignored and get told to shut up if they're crying, or if a young child is trying to show their parent something.

The threats parents make when the children aren't being silent and not bothering them, the way parents talk to their children, it's no wonder children act the way they do.

Children on my road talk like their parents, you have 5 year olds swearing like its normal language. I will however say that the kids play out a lot when the weather is good.

Not to mention the weed. The amount of parents who smoke it out and about, that carry it and you can smell it a mile off. Parents who think they're doing the right thing by smoking it outside their house, but in reality, the smell travels inside not just their house but their neighbours houses too. Surely that has to have some affect on small children's brains

Teens smoking weed everywhere, parents knowing their kids smoke it but don't care because they are all smoking it too.

But they're not horrendous?

That's because it boils down to parenting.

It's not really got much to do with 0, 1 or 2 parents working. Nor on single parenthood. Nor any of the other reasons often touted.

But we're not allowed to point the finger at parents and say, "Your child behaves like this because you're just a bit crap," so all these other reasons are bandied about.

If you're a good parent then you're a good parent. No matter what your socio-economic background, your education, your intelligence level, your social mobility etc. If you're a lazy parent, then you're a lazy parent.

If I look at the children I've taught in isolation, it would be easy to say, "You behave like x because..." and insert any reason - cash rich/time poor and over indulged; single parent; both parents/neither parent works etc.

But the truth is that it doesnt matter what family set up/dynamic we can think of, there will always be another child/family who is the same but where the parents have made different choices and prioritised their child/ren and whose children won't behave badly.

I worked long hours as a single parent and a teacher. I still listened to my children read, made bathtimes a bonding experience, took an interest in them. I used to sit in the car when my young daughter had ballet on my laptop planning. I played with them, made dens, walked in the park, taught them to cook.

As a teacher, I always find the first parents evening of the year very revealing. Additional needs aside, I have yet (in 20 years of teaching) to meet a parent and think, "Huh. You weren't what I expected!" Good and bad, you meet the parents and everything about the child becomes clear.

I 100% agree too.

We can't even get into our local church because there are people coming in to steal who are pretty scary and the church folks changed the lights to new low energy ones which give me really terrible migraines.

Our community just doesn't work any more.

Since covid we aren't even safe in the park because of the dogs.

Life is just so hard for kids who want to do their best. My son is super well behaved and polite but he couldn't handle the stress in state secondary and I had to remove him.

He doesn't even play video games any more. We only use screens when we watch together and talk together. We're doing our best, but everything is stacked against kids now.

I'm mum to a 3.5 year boy who's 'violent' in school and I can tell you it's not from lazy parenting. I'm a SAHM and my son was fine at nursery up until the age of 3 but we had problems at home with hitting etc, then the switch to preschool set him off there and we've had incidents of biting, hitting, throwing, hair pulling. He knows it's wrong but lacks impulse control. He knows the different things he could do to calm himself down and yet he cant. Currently awaiting a SEN assessment. I've really tried everything. We don't own a TV, he plays outside in the park for 2/3 hours a day after school - we don't have any issues there (only does half days), advanced speech. I do recognize that he's hyper sensitive and takes a long time to settle & adapt to change, it appears in the last couple of weeks he's made great progress, school say they've not had any issues at all. We've worked with them to accomodate any request they've had. So I'm hopeful that perhaps he just needed time. Not all 'bad' behaviour is because of poor parenting and I've felt alot of judgement and shame from others over my sons behaviour.

It does make you wonder though, what's causing this to the extent that its happening?

This. 12 years of austerity. It's shit. I see children being failed every day.

Completely agree.

It's too easy to just blame it on one particular reason or another rather than just saying - actually, as a parent, you're just not doing a great job.

Screens. Has to be. There were always some very poor parents but screen use has created a tidal wave of unacceptable behaviour across all demographics. I think it was happening before covid but covid made it completely acceptable to rely on screens for everything. Before covid it was still largely considered shoddy parenting to stick a young child in front of a screen constantly. Now I know kids who’s parents will openly admit that they give any toys they’re given for birthdays etc away as the ONLY thing they will do in spare times is screens/gaming. Imagine that? Young children who don’t even know how to play with toys. My 5 yo has come home repeating completely inappropriate violent language learnt from kids at school who are gaming. There’s no hope. I think government actually needs to step in because clearly parents can’t be replied upon to be responsible. We have all been brainwashed to ignore the dangers.

Just following my last message, why is this happening? Why are so many kids dysregualted at school, is there an increase in SEN or behavioural problems? I went to a 4 year olds birthday party last summer and noticed how aggressive & deliberately unkind so many of the kids were & the parents weren't watching, or bothered. One kid picked up a metal pole & was swinging it at a play tent with kids inside who were crying. He was intent on hurting them. The mum only came over because I told him off & she just said "oh he's a bit boisterous", didn't take the pole off him. 20 mins later he whacks the birthday boy in the face with the pole and cuts his lip open. Unbelievable. Are parents turning a blind eye to bad behaviour? Are kids more desensitised to aggressive behaviour?

• is it too much screen time?
• kids in childcare earlier and for longer days - 2 parents working
• change in parenting styles
• different family setups
• more anxious/ stressed parents - is this impacting child's feelings & behaviour
• tired parents giving in to kids demands
• the increase in young kids using ipads, games consoles, phones
• kids exposure to violence happening from young age
• poor diet?

There must be a reason

@JudgeJ

Is it? Really?

Because, you know, we aren't lazy and ineffectual- hardly any screens, outside time, DC's cup runneth over with museums and educational activity and books. They are a pleasure to have in the class. They've also got 2x diagnoses and really struggle- not least with the poor behaviour of other kids.

It's not an excuse. They do have SEN and I really bloody wish they didn't. They also don't behave badly- the SEN = poor behaviour is a pretty tedious equivalence.

Their school has also lost 16 staff members since 2018. Pretty sure that's big on the reasons things are so tough.

Donkeys don’t breed racehorses.
Some behaviour will be because of additional needs but ultimately it’s ineffectual parenting.

There's so much "convenience" related products for kids and parents now - is this impacting behaviour

• Tonies and yoto players so kids can listen to a story rather than being read to
• kids ipads/kindles and all the kids channel subscriptions
• games apps for young kids on phones (noticed this when I saw my friend in a cafe the other day her son was doing a letter tracing app on her phone with his finger and I thought she thinks it's educational so it's justified and I'm thinking that's not how you learn to write.
• packaged/processed food and snacks for kids - is diet impacting behaviour

Lazy parenting in my experience.

At a party the other day one parent was complaining to me she couldn’t get her child to do her homework, she was incredulous when I said my child doesn’t get a choice, when it’s time to do homework then that’s what she does, and we’re only talking about a 6 year old practicing spellings here, so about 5 minutes worth.

When my oldest started school I was shocked that most of the other kids were apparently allowed to watch YouTube unsupervised and the parents didn’t even think this was odd, when we’ve been for play dates I’ve seen other kids just turn the TV without asking and sit staring at it instead of playing.

I get the impression other parents would rather be their kids friend than their protector.

They also don't behave badly- the SEN = poor behaviour is a pretty tedious equivalence.

I think most teachers understand this

Unfortunately, SEN and shit parents are not mutually exclusive.

I know it's a bit of a taboo on here to suggest that not all parents of children with additional needs are great parents but some children are dealt a double whammy of having been born with additional meets to crap parents.

I’ve been pondering this for some time too. The stories my son comes home from school telling me are shocking. Not a week goes by without a story about a teacher being hit during a lesson or in the dinner hall or in the playground. I went to a comp in quite a run down area and this was unheard of in my day.

I don’t think it’s due to lazy parents, parents were pretty lazy in terms of parenting in the 80’s and 90’s. I do think screens have a part to play. We were all kicked out onto the street until it got dark. So we were running around, expending energy. Maybe it’s due to there being less stay at home parents too? I think it’s also due to the decline in corporal punishment in the home. Not that I’m advocated smacking at all (I would never smack my own), but I wouldn’t have been able to sit down for a week if my mother had been told by the school that I’d hit a teacher.

I’ve also been wondering about the exponential rise in neurodiversity. I don’t think that the rise in poor behaviour is due to inadequate treatment of ND or lack of available assessments as we didn’t have any of that in the 80’s and 90’s either. Is it linked to women having children later in life? Is it related to UPF’s? Is it due to micro plastics in our environment? I’ve read all these theories but can’t quite believe any of them.

I think they are sitting down too much at home(on screens) and sitting down too much in school. They need a vast amount of physical activity and they are not getting it. They are also driven everywhere, so that is more sitting down.

I was thinking through our circle of friends and which children are the worst behaved. Without doubt it is our friends who both work part time (as they are high earners) - they spend quality time with their kids, they do lots with them etc et but the things I've noticed is they never tell them off even when their behaviour is pretty outrageous and they give in really easily. So if we're out for a meal the kids will be running riot - there are just no boundaries.

At a party the other day one parent was complaining to me she couldn’t get her child to do her homework, she was incredulous when I said my child doesn’t get a choice, when it’s time to do homework then that’s what she does, and we’re only talking about a 6 year old practicing spellings here, so about 5 minutes worth

The number of times I've had parents tell me their children won't read, practise spellings or do their times tables because they'd rather do x, y or z instead (usually device related).

They look at me like I'm an idiot if I suggest to them that they tell their child they can go on whatever device after they've read or whatever. It's like it's not even occurred to them.

The child says no and some parents seem helpless in knowing what to do next.

Absolutely. And we got told time and time again to expect covid generation infants to be behind socially
And yet to my surprise, my 2nd daughter who was 8 months when covid hit, and her class in general, are a very sociable, well balanced, happy and independent group. I was talking with her teacher who said that in 10 years of teaching those was the easiest class she has ever had in terms of their social skills. Children from a wide range of backgrounds and abilities play brilliantly together. And whilst I fully understand this was a really tough time for many, I strangely enjoyed it. We had to stay home, so we had many hours of interactive simple play with her and her 3 year old sister. No rushing from music group to playdate to mummy's lunch to waterbabies as I had done with my oldest, just lots of talking and singing and a good settled predictable routine.
Our lives are usually so rushed and frantic that this time to really focus and bond was great. She talked, walked, slept and ate much better than her sister as she was given the timetable do so.

There us so much made of 'you must do playdates and baby signing etc etc, that the focus on the bond with a primary giver in first 18 months can get lost. Thats all a baby needs in their first year.

There's been a systemic change in how we treat children. We no longer frighten them or hit them like the 80s.
It's far too simplistic to blame the parents. Students know their rights.
The education system needs to change because the curriculum is not fit for purpose. Many students are angry sat learning absolute tosh

There's more ND being identified, not more ND.

Why could ND children of the 80s and older cope (within reason and not without exception) but ND children can't nowadays? Many did and are now being diagnosed in their 40s. So what's changed?

My top 2 are:

Consistency. Generally, school rules and home rules were pretty similar. School, adults were in charge. Home, adults were in charge. No swearing/hitting/shouting at home.
No swearing/hitting/shouting at school. Follow adult instruction at home. Follow adult instruction at school. Parents expected you home at a certain time (no phones/alarms to remind you). School staff expect you to be on time.

Boredom = imagination and creativity. Kids aren't allowed to be bored now. Everything is stimulating. If it's not screens, the anti-screen parents can be just as bad with a continuous supply of insta-worthy crafts and activities.

This is a very interesting debate. What's really changed in the last few years are both parents working and child goes pillar to post being brought up by too many people... People who are too soft to discipline or not sure how to.

My child was described as "mature" by his teacher, this is because I put in so much bloody work with skills and I took a break from work for 5 years.

Today I hear of children pushing their teachers until they cry and then dancing on the table to celebrate.

I think your consistency point is a really good one.

Children evolved to play with lots of other kids and have multiple caregivers - grandparents, neighbours, aunts - all of this is gone

Well they wanted woman to go back to work and created a team of nurseries and gave discounts to ensure woman worked and then increased house prices so you need 2 people to afford housings.

No wonder parents are stressed.

But that does not excuse poor parenting.

Looking round a classroom of 30 kids half with diagnosed SEN is the NT children causing the problems. Hitting, can’t share, boastful, parents are the first to say ‘my child would never’ no discipline at home, nobody reads to them or tucks them in at night.

It’s the parents who say their kids are angels at home so it’s a school problem would not take kindly to being asked to home Ed the kids!

@GoodnightAdeline

What event in the last five years might have caused an issue in child development???

It's obvious isn't it?

It takes a village to raise a small child and children under 5 missed out on a tonne as did all children.