To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

What event in the last five years might have caused an issue in child development???

It was noticeably declining 5 years before that though.

I quit after 17 years.
Poorly behaved children were rewarded with an iPad in the Head's office.
I was kicked , punched, spat at , scratched , but 'let's just be calm about it.'

I'm surprised anyone wants to work in a school. And don't get me started on the parents... that's an even worse ball game.

Not to scare monger and I'm sure this only affects a small number of people, but apparently the steroids they used to give to mums to strengthen the lungs of babies they thought would be born premature, well they think those steroids are now linked to things like adhd. Its worse if ur baby wasnt a totally born premature but you still had the steroids. Obviously its risks vs benefits but they are now saying it can be linked to later behavioural problems.

Covid is still definitely having an impact. These are children who were locked down when they should have been learning to socialise and speak. Whose parents were also isolated from supports in early parenting due to Covid.

Overall the risk is low. I dont want to scare monger.

I'll soon be 70 and can't think of a single couple of my wide acquaintance where both partners didn't work, and soon after maternity leave too. It's not new at all. I also don't see how both parents working means a child is brought up by "too many" people; it's not a given. Again anecdotally but all my acquaintance used childminders, then nursery, then sometimes au pairs, then worked round the school day.

At age 4, when I started school, the school day was from 9:30 to 12 noon. The following year, it was 9 to 3 with a half-hour break in the morning and an hour for lunch.

My memories of school in those days are basically memories of playing outdoors at lunchtime, or doing country dancing indoors on wet days.

We finished each day with free reading or drawing. In later years, we did handwork - knitting, sewing, and crochet. We also did singing classes and elocution.

Left and right brain are both important, and physical activity is a must.

I’m curious, I’m a nursery worker and I often wonder if ofsted and the early years curriculum have some fault here, with the expectation for the staff to work with what the children are interested in rather than teaching them new skills or give them fresh knowledge.

I work in a recently inspected outstanding nursery, and whilst the children are well cared, their play is very repetitive, one group of children stay outside running around, catching each other, this can go on for many hours. There is no expectation that they come inside and take part in more formal learning or any other type of learning, there is no expectation that they will write their name, because they haven’t shown an interest in writing.
Staff step back because otherwise they are told they are being too directive. The outcome will be in 6 months this group of children will be at school with no ability to sit down and listen.
I understand the importance of play, but we don’t seem to stretch them any further.

Yes I agree @mathanxiety physical activity and being outdoors are key. As mentioned earlier my son is 3.5yo and challenging. We moved him from a nursery at 3 to a montessori preschool and he's struggled to go from all of the physical activities they did to 3 hours in a classroom in a morning, no break. We take him to the park for 2 sometimes 3 hours on an afternoon after school and it makes all the difference. We know he needs to get his energy out.

@hastalavista interesting you mention that about steroids. My son is awaiting a SEN assessment and we are struggling with undesirable behaviour right now. I took steroids for a blood platelet condition I had in my pregnancy. As much as they said the risk to baby was low I remember after he was born he had weekly blood tests. Every time I took steroids for my condition, I could see that my son was being impacted by them through breastfeeding because his platelet level shot up.

I was going to say that I agree with this. Also phones, social media. Parents aren't always present - myself included at time, I find I'm on the phone just doing a food shop and then I've found myself scrolling mindlessly wasting time, I wish I could get rid of my phone.

Saying that, my husband and I parent the best we can, but without any family help we struggle at times and any time for us is at the bottom of the list. It's certainly a different era of parenting from how my parents looked after us.
Our children are fantastic though. We talk to them, read to them and deal with any issues. I know lots of parents at our school that don't really get involved much and it makes me sad.

If I was to sum up the issue with school as a teacher it is resentment.

The kids resent every moment they aren’t on their phones. Not all of them but quite a good proportion are so addicted that they are just constantly pissed off that you are trying to focus them on something else. More than ever before I feel hated just for asking people to be polite to each other and have a go at the work. I’m not asking for the moon- just the essentials.

I get sworn at all the time. And the rudeness and lack of appropriate boundaries is so wild- just beyond belief.

You are not being unreasonable but the reason is probably so many neurodivergent children and so little support . As an example , small school where 19% of the children are sen . Yes classes are small but still lacking massive support

I have a few friends who are teachers, they are a very hard working bunch and all speak of declining behavioural standards. So how does society or the school implement change? Sadly,I suspect that by the time a child is attending school, it is almost too late for any teacher, by force of will, to change things for the better.
What influence does a teacher have in a system which has been underfunded for decades, and where family life is crippled by the twin evils of poor parenting, possibly issues relating to relationship breakdown, drugs and poverty and the unrelenting exposure to social media, pornography, violence etc etc ?
How is a teacher to do in a class room of 25plus what the parent cannot or will not do in the home? I think most teachers are frightened to death of complaints by parents, or the ofsted inspection, or the unsupportive Head. However the greatest single cause of disruptive behaviour lies with the parents. How times have changed, when i was at school, to have been ‘in trouble’ was something one never spoke of at home, because without any hesitation the response was to support the teacher and admonish the child for a second time. Being in trouble at school was a big deal. Im not suggesting things were perfect, but there was a mentality which was overwhelmingly supportive of the teacher and recognised the need for certain standards to be maintained.
If a child is hungry [as so many little children seem to be] or has not had a lot of attention at home, and has spent far too much time on the internet, often unsupervised and watching inappropriate material, how can s/he make the behavioural adjustments necessary for learning? There are too many distractions and things going on for the child to cope.

Agree 100%.

All a baby / toddler needs is a solid relationship with a caregiver, and you don't have to leave home or pay money for that.

Parents have been suckered into thinking their babies and toddlers need all sorts of entertainment and novelty and enrichment. They don't.

They need someone to coo at them, play peek a boo, read their little books to them, sing rhymes, roll a ball with them, show interest when they spot a bird or a worm or a squirrel, or find a pine cone or a special stick.

I was on a bus today and there was a young child yelling and shouting. Both adults with him were on their phones. The child not getting any attention at all or being calmed down. It was unpleasant to listen to but I felt very sorry for the kid.

Who is 'they'?

Link??

I grew up in the 90s and early noughties and there were no behavioural problems until at least high school. No diagnosed SEN kids in primary out of 25 kids that I knew of. If I had to guess there was one boy possibly on the spectrum, didn't have as many friends as the rest of the kids and talked non-stop about one subject but he wasn't disruptive.

High school there were a couple kids that we knew had behavioural problems but that's out of what, 200+ kids? Other than that, the worst problems seemed to be a couple of boys who were very attached to their hats and refused to take them off and occasional swearing and talking back, but certainly no physical violence to teachers. That would be absolutely unheard of. Everyone I was friends with had good parents (as far as I know) and it was a good area. I wouldn't like to be in school these days, feel bad for the good kids.

but the things I've noticed is they never tell them off even when their behaviour is pretty outrageous and they give in really easily. So if we're out for a meal the kids will be running riot - there are just no boundaries.

^^

Agree with this completely.

Absolutely no parenting going on at all. Good, old fashioned, 'no, don't do that'.

Also noticed people don't seem to correct their kid's speech anymore?? Wtf is that about??

It's an utter race to the bottom. And it's showing.

They need someone to coo at them, play peek a boo, read their little books to them, sing rhymes, roll a ball with them, show interest when they spot a bird or a worm or a squirrel, or find a pine cone or a special stick.

^

This. Until aged 5 at least really.

Yes I think change is desperately needed.

I have two ND (diagnosed) children. I didn't give them TV until well over age 2. We only got them tablets at age 5 and 6 (nearly 7) to meet the requirements of home learning in second Covid lockdown. I really wish we hadn't. They have been hard to police, a cause of frustration and arguments in the house ever since.

I did work part time and use a childminder/nursery and then when they went to school I relied on wrap around school childcare. I've totally cut back on my work so it's school hours only and no more childcare needed. My children struggled to cope with childcare to varying degrees.

They both have learning difficulties, one significantly so. Although both struggle in school there is no bad behaviour in school although plenty at home.

I do a lot to support them.

How do we cut back screen usage now? they go on devoces more than I'd like and I'd agree with pp that it contributes to the problemS we are seeing in schools. I just find it's what they gravitate to and I'm not sure how to change that. A cold turkey, hard line approach does not work with my children. A gentler, slower yet still firm approach will work. Anything abrupt and strict will incite meltdowns and be too challenging to implement.

I'd appreciate advice from anyone who has managed to cut back on it.

I think part of the problem is t he need for both parents to work.
If a preschool child is in childcare from 8 to 6 five days a week, who is bringing them up? Parenting is largely lear n ed at your mother's knee.We are witnessing the first generation of parents who were themselves raised by nurseries rather than parented, and so have no clue how to be parents themselves!

Phones, iPads, tv

Two parents working is old stuff, as I've posted upthread on this page, so what's happening now is not down to that. One thing about my and my contemporaries' experience of raising children in the mid-90s was that childcare was affordable. True we had middle-class incomes, but it really really was not the issue it is now.

One thing I could imagine being an issue might, just might be a significant mix of childcare every week because of the cost of childcare, e.g. parents/grandparents/nursery/friends. I imply no criticism whatsoever of any of the people involved, but would think consistency is very important.

My not me! Bloody English teachers

There was n article in the spectator schools supplement on the school that banned phone use during the school day. Children reverted to normal behaviour of banter, fun, laughing,much less aggravation. Happier.
Allphones were locked into some sort of individual bag til end of school.