WWYD: Son and Money

[ClamFandango]

DS (15yo) gets £60per month allowance, from which he pays for his phone contract (sim only: £6), and all non-school uniform clothes plus socialising, snacks etc.
He is not good at saving, although we encourage him to save £30 per month - so that it doesn't all get spent on snacks and small things. On top of that he will usually ask for money from family for birthday and Christmas, and usually gets given about £150 in total each time. He tends to save up for a bit and then blow the lot on a big ticket item (usually equipment for his music hobby, clothes or gifts for friends).
He recently bought his sister a v generous birthday gift, and a valentine gift for his girlfriend. Then he dropped his mobile phone and it broke - repair cost barely less than replacement (with secondhand reconditioned phone), so he spent £200 on a new secondhand phone, which cleaned his savings out and we had to advance him £60, which wipes out his next two months' savings (so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school).
This morning he was sad that he won't be able to buy his best friend a birthday present next month, and got very defensive when I suggested he was angling for a further loan / more cash from us. I said he wasn't getting any more money from me beyond the allowance, less the loan he already owes, and he had to learn to save more prudently.

We could afford to give him something to buy the friend a present, but the purpose behind the allowance is to teach him budgeting. We feel so mean saying "tough luck - you've spent up and that's it. Tell your friend you'll get him something in a couple of months' time". AIBU to take this stance?

@ClamFandango

It sounds like you are giving your son what you can for his monthly allowance and I am sure this is helping him learn about budgeting. I read your explanation about his ‘savings’ and that makes sense - initially I did think £24 per month was very small but I see now it’s £54 per month. Glad too that you’ve reached a compromise giving him 4 months to pay back his loan so he can now afford a birthday present - I think that’s really important at that age!

To help him with budgeting in advance, I wondered whether you could sit down with him with a yearly calendar with dates to budget for yearly events - e.g. February - £20 Valentine’s Day. April - £10 best friend’s birthday. December - £xx Christmas presents (and break this down into a rough budget for each person he buys for). This might help him get a longer term overview of what he needs to afford in the future (planned expenses). I do think he’s done very well to manage £140 for the unexpected expense of his phone! I hope he has a sturdy case now! I find Otterbox do very protective cases - I’ve never had a phone smash with an Otterbox case and there’s been quite a few accidents!

1. Insure his phone and then he won't need to keep buying a new one every time something happens to his.

1. This is not enough money for clothes and socialising.

My ds is 13 and I bought him Nike joggers and a t-shirt today that was £85 alone. He went swimming and got chips today that was £10. Gym £3 a visit and he goes a couple of times a week. £15pw school lunch money. Phone £6pm. None of these things are particularly excessive imo but if he had to buy clothes too he'd have virtually nothing. £60 wouldn't even buy my ds a pair of shoes.

1. Gifts for others shouldn't be coming from his own spends when he has so little already.

This is the attitude my mother had (only with much less) and all it taught me was I was unable to save and I was shite with money..

Took me therapy to realise I'm not shite but things cost and if that is not considered then you cant expect savings.

If you had said he gets £160 I would agree he can save 30 a month but with what he is meant to purchase himself he has no chance.

I will add if you cant afford more then obviously you cant give more. However, instead of giving him £10 if he goes out with friends for lunch I would up that allowance. I would also stop the 30 in here and 30 in there and give him his amount and encourage him to learn how to use it.

as for sister her time will come she is still at the age where they are not out quite as much. but a bubble tea is £4 ..

If half of his annual allowance is for going out, his phone and snacks this leaves £360 to clothe himself for a year? As in for everything other than underwear, school uniform, one coat and one pair of shoes? Why do you think you are only responsible for school uniform and underwear, a 15 year old boy is growing and he needs other clothes as well. And you don’t want him to get a job either?

Somebody said you should think about the damage to your future relationship. I would echo that. I am 53 years old and I felt angry reading your post because my parents also didn’t think it was their responsibility to buy me clothes when I was a young teenager. I consider myself to have had an unhappy childhood and I consider my parents abusive, there were other things, including violence, but I can assure you that not clothing me is something that I have never forgotten. (In my case I got a paper round and baby sat).

I think it was very stingy of you not to buy him a new phone. Are you really that strapped for cash or are you trying to teach him some lesson?

Clothing your child is part of the very basics of parenting. It’s not optional. He cannot manage on this sum of £60 a month as it includes too much (phone, clothes, gifts, socialising and snacks). You need to take that responsibility away from him. Honestly, they grow at that age and they need adequate clothes. The amount you’ve given him isn’t enough. Well, it is enough if he never socialises or buys gifts for others. He sounds like a thoughtful boy, you should be proud of his generosity! Help him budget for gifts but please ensure your child has access to clothing.

@op

I'd be interested to know what you buy for Christmas and birthdays. What's your budget for those occasions?

Sorry you've been given such a hard time on here OP, however I do think your explanation of how the 'savings' are spent, makes things clearer. You're actually teaching him that money doesn't grow on trees, or miraculously appear out of nowhere just because you want it to. Trouble is, there appear to be so many on MN that actually don't live with a limited budget, unlike others, and if they want something extra they just put it on the credit card. That is of course until the credit card bill is so high that they just end up paying the bare minimum each month, so that they can keep on spending in order to keep up with the 'Jones's'. I think too many young people these days, just have to ask and they receive, and then when the time comes to work, they don't want to, because they think their parents should still continue to give them handouts. In my opinion you're doing the right thing, and are teaching your children the value of money. Well done!

Exactly this!

When our children were teenagers buying clothes was never ending. They outgrew clothes and shoes so fast we barely had time to breathe before we bought more. This thread has made me feel really sad for the child involved. Goodness knows how he must feel seeing his peers being taken shopping for casual clothing when he’s limited to £30 a month as he must save half of his £60 allowance. Out of the £30 he has left after saving he has to pay for his phone, snacks, gifts for family and friends for birthdays, Christmas and socialising. He can’t have much of a social life as bowling often costs £12 where we are, add a couple of soft drinks and a night at bowling or cinema is easily £20. Not everyone can afford these costs but as a parent you prioritise and explain why you can’t afford these things. Most of us have been there and teenagers do accept you can’t afford everything all the time or every week. Not providing basic essentials like casual clothing/socialising or snacks is wrong on so many levels. It makes me wonder what food is available to this young person if he needs to provide his own snacks tbh.

@ClamFandango give yourself a shake! It wouldn’t surprise me if in a few years time we see a post from this poster wondering why their child has gone NC with them tbh.

Edited to add we provided all clothing, phones, phone contracts, and a weekly allowance, we are very fortunate to be able to do that and I’m sure many parents do exactly the same.

Won't child benefit cover most of that 60? It's not a lot of money given how expensive everything is . So what do you pay for for him ? Other then food and housing ? . It's like parents who use birthdays and Christmas to buy shoes/clothing or coat the child really needs. Not really a gift so much as a necessity. Dont get me wrong if it's just the latest trainers or something similar and he has perfectly good ones anyway . I would say save up for them .

Ds12 gets £100 a month allowance. We pay for his clothes, phone, clubs and will stick an extra £20 here and there onto his card if he's going out with friends. He does save a small amount.

You're too harsh. Why can't you buy his friend the £10 present or forget the loan?

OP has already stated he asks everyone for money for birthdays and Xmas and altogether he only gets £150 for his birthday and £150 for Xmas. It's very sad that a child has to ask everyone for money for birthdays and Xmas just so he can clothe himself. Then he's a kind hearted DC and spends a lot of it on his sister. He probably knows how she feels if she is treated in a similar way.

Good grief - unless you're really struggling financially, I think you're incredibly mean. £60 a month for a 16 year old isn't particularly generous and expecting him to save half of that is ridiculous. I'm shocked that you expect him to buy his clothes out of his allowance as well. My daughter had an allowance of £60 per month at that age and she's 31 now. I always paid for her phone contract, gave her extra for birthday presents for close friends, and would never have expected her to buy any of her clothes.

YANBU, as £60 is what you can afford I’m not sure why posters are acting superior and giving you a hard time.

My parents could only afford similar and I got a part time job as soon as I turned 16. It was great, taught me to budget, get to work on time, work out public transport. And havingmy own money was a great feeling.

I've never 'invested' in any phone cover apart from whatever they come with and have never smashed a phone despite dropping them onto hard ground occasionally. What on earth are people doing with them?

I've never spent £200 on a phone, second hand or otherwise either. That's a ridiculous amount if money is tight and he's so careless with them.

Sounds like he 'accidentally' broke it because he fancied an upgrade so if that's what he was hoping for he should definitely have to pay for it out of his allowance, if it was a genuine accident and he had no money, he could have used one of the spare phones the OP offered him.

I understand you teaching avour finance. Expecting him to buy is own clothes on £30 a month because you want him to save 30 us ridiculous.

I'm as poor as it's possible to be in this country - lone parent to one teen, zero child maintenance, low paid care worker, and renting.
Yet, I accept that it is my responsibility to feed and clothe my child.
If OP genuinely can't afford to, then she needs to look at ways of increasing her income. That could be Universal Credit top up or extra hours. Child Benefit is £96 p/m, and if you don't have enough income to feed and clothe your children, then it's likely you'll be able to claim that. It is meant for the child, not for his share of the mortgage and council tax and TV licence.

DS gets free school meals (residual) but it's not really enough to keep a growing teen going all day.
So, I top it up by £10 p/w.
I also give him £10 p/w 'expenses' for other drinks, sweets and snacks, which he 'earns' by doing the rubbish and recycling.
Teenagers don't always want to take a bottle of weak squash and a bag of Lidl crisps to the park/football pitch/basketball court. Here, they all go to the village shop, together and they do share/treat each other.

We both have refurbished, older versions Google Pixel phones, and I pay £10 p/m for his phone, because it's a necessity - I have to leave him EOW, and school holidays, while I work. I can't imagine 'charging' him for his share of a family/household expense, so I'd no more calculate his share of the SIM package, than have him pay his share of the broadband or the petrol for days out, from his pocket money.
I put £25 p/m in his bank account. This covers for his Playstation subscription and his football 'fanclub' membership that allows him to listen to matches, as we don't have Sky Sports. He uses the rest to buy, eg, new footballs, as he gets through a lot of them, and we go halves on things like football boots, football strip, more expensive trainers, if he wants them and reasonably sensible things like a bag or the nutri-bullet he wanted.
I pay for cinema tickets, but if he wants more than a £1 worth of tuppence and a few games of air hockey at the arcade, he pays. And if we eat out and he wants a second Subway or an extra drink (he always does), then he pays for that!

His paternal grandparents transfer £50 a year at Xmas, and again on his birthday, from all of them, including his Dad. That's the only money he gets, outside the money I give him, so he can't rely on birthdays and Xmas to boost his savings.

So, 14 y old gets £125, plus £55 for music lessons p/m, his basic clothes, and halves on extra shoes and clothes, as and when.

It sounds - and feels - like a lot, but I can't see how any less would be fair, or reasonable. It helps that he is a good kid, never fully empties his account, really doesn't ask for much, and it makes me happy to treat him.

In answer to OPs question, I would have gone halves on the phone - and a protective case.

Well… good for you, I guess? I’ve smashed a few phone screens over the years and haven’t done anything more than drop them on hard ground. Maybe my ground is harder than yours? Anyway, I shall reflect and do better next time.

More fool you. You don't need to buy branded stuff at massive mark ups. My teen DD gets brilliant clothes from Vinted and depop for a fraction of shop prices. Lots of mumsnetters are avid charity shop customers. If OP can't afford it, she can't afford it!

Honestly, I know the OP was badly worded but OP has clarified she buys the necessities of her son's life, his pocket money is for fun stuff.

I am a single parent on a very limited budget, I don’t have a credit card.

It is still my responsibility to clothe my children and I budget accordingly to do that!

It is still my responsibility to clothe my children and I budget accordingly to do that!

OP's son isn't walking around in rags. She states very clearly she pays for necessary clothes in later posts. OP's son has to fund his fashion choices. Which seems completely fair and normal in a family on a tight budget.

Didn't OP originally state only school clothes, underwear, PJs, one coat and one pair of trainers.
Not wanting to go to the cinema with his mates at the weekend, in his school uniform, isn't exactly an outrageous 'fashion choice', is it?

He has plenty for "casual outerwear", especially when he shops cannily, as OP says he does. He gets money for Christmas and birthdays, plus extra money to eat out when he goes out.

A couple of generations ago it was the norm to have a small number of clothes. Brand marketing and fast fashion has completely distorted our perception of normal. A generation ago eating out was a treat, now some people default to it. These are expensive choices.

This is a family on a tight budget. It would be lovely if he could spend freely but he can't, so he should probably look after his expensive devices better.

You expect your school aged child to buy his own clothes and socialize on £30 a month! Plus pay his own phone. Poor child. I would encourage a Saturday job if that's possible but stop making him pay for all that himself on a tiny amount of money