WWYD: Son and Money

[ClamFandango]

DS (15yo) gets £60per month allowance, from which he pays for his phone contract (sim only: £6), and all non-school uniform clothes plus socialising, snacks etc.
He is not good at saving, although we encourage him to save £30 per month - so that it doesn't all get spent on snacks and small things. On top of that he will usually ask for money from family for birthday and Christmas, and usually gets given about £150 in total each time. He tends to save up for a bit and then blow the lot on a big ticket item (usually equipment for his music hobby, clothes or gifts for friends).
He recently bought his sister a v generous birthday gift, and a valentine gift for his girlfriend. Then he dropped his mobile phone and it broke - repair cost barely less than replacement (with secondhand reconditioned phone), so he spent £200 on a new secondhand phone, which cleaned his savings out and we had to advance him £60, which wipes out his next two months' savings (so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school).
This morning he was sad that he won't be able to buy his best friend a birthday present next month, and got very defensive when I suggested he was angling for a further loan / more cash from us. I said he wasn't getting any more money from me beyond the allowance, less the loan he already owes, and he had to learn to save more prudently.

We could afford to give him something to buy the friend a present, but the purpose behind the allowance is to teach him budgeting. We feel so mean saying "tough luck - you've spent up and that's it. Tell your friend you'll get him something in a couple of months' time". AIBU to take this stance?

60 pounds is not enough for him to also buy clothes. If there are enough funds in your home you should pay his phone and clothing. The 60 pounds should be for going out, gifts or hobbies.

We pay for phone and clothes. However if ds wants branded stuff he has the put in the extra for those. So if he wants £90 trainers i would put in £40 and he would have top up the rest from his allowance. He also worked from 15 so had extra money that way. I do think you can only give what you can afford but he needs to understand that. Not everyone can afford to give allowance each month.

I agree that if you are making him save half his allowance he only has £30 per month which is too low for what you are expecting him to cover.

When ours were teens their allowance was basically the child benefit which is currently £24 a week for first child and £15.90 for second child.
This works out at a total of £2074 a year or £172 a month for 2 kids. Given they are so close in age I would split this evenly between them per month giving them £86 allowance per month each.
This is much more realistic than £60.

Even if you do give him a bit extra if he is eating out with friends what he is currently getting is barely enough to cover what he needs to pay for. A cinema ticket and a drink would wipe out most of his weekly money as things stand.

But the issue is that OP's child is expected to provide himself with the essentials that his parents should be providing, from that allowance.
A child shouldn't be expected to spend his 'pocket money' on food and clothes!

I can't believe you are making your child repay a 'loan' to his parents! So he has a miserable £45 per month for 4 months instead of £60. I'm surprised you're not charging him interest.

I think you are incredibly mean OP. He must have an incredibly limited social life on that budget and I find it hard to believe he has a decent set of clothes either.

No, she originally said she paid for school uniform only and then changed the narrative when everyone said how unfair it was.

I think that's a very small allowance that your expecting him to save half from and buy clothes etc.
I didn't expect mine to save at all or buy clothes or pay for their phones until they had Saturday jobs. I think you are being quite unfair tbh and should a gift for his best friend and give him back the 'savings' you've deducted this month

@MockneyReject again, OP has confirmed that she pays for the essentials over and above the - pretty healthy - allowance her son gets. He can buy what he likes from the money his parents give him, or he could get less in his pocket and his mum buys his t-shirts, hoodies and jeans for him. It's the same difference in £ terms.

He's had four phones in six years. He gets £300 for Christmas and birthday combined. The family are in financial circumstances that don't allow more. What don't people understand about that?

This with bells on. I notice that the OP hasn't been back in a while because she is rightly getting a pasting!

You are teaching him budgeting which is a valuable life skill.

Whether you are being too harsh in the way you are teaching him is subjective rather than objective.

The important thing is to point out to him that he has choices and a limited amount of money to spend to make those choices.

For example rather than go through X phones in X years at £200 a pop, he could buy a Nokia G22 smartphone which will do all the things you want with a smartphone apart from maybe play high end games, while only costing about £150 new, which would leave £50 for other stuff. It also has replaceable parts like the screen so if he smashes it it will be cheaper to repair.

I guess most teens wouldn't want to be seen dead with a G22 though.

Honestly I think he need £20 per week, so £80 for the month. I wouldn't be telling him to use it for clothes. That's impossible to do and a bit stingy of you.

I missed the update, where OP added jeans, t-shirts and hoodies to her original list of schoolwear, underwear, one coat and one pair of trainers.

I've already given advice, such as claiming Universal Credit, if the family genuinely can't feed and clothe their children.

He's not getting enough money to earn how to budget. He's learning about how to get into debt

OK then - yes, you should bail him out. It's not like he's breaking his phone on purpose and of course he should be able to get his friend a present. However, the REASON you should bail him out is because you aren't giving him enough allowance to cover the things you expect him to pay for with it.

I think you're being really unrealistic about the way you expect a 15-year-old to spend money. You're thinking of his budget the way you'd think of an adult's priorities - eg, you're talking about him wasting money on 'snacks and small things'. To a teenager, those things are not a waste. They're important.

I've already given advice, such as claiming Universal Credit, if the family genuinely can't feed and clothe their children.

Such hyperbole. OP can afford to feed and clothe her children. She has just chosen to add part of her son's clothing budget to his monthly allowance to help him learn about budgeting. He's 15 and is making some mistakes, which is normal. OP doesn't have a lot of extra money to throw at him, which is also normal.

He's not wandering the streets naked and starving. He's learning that he has to make choices between buying a £20 Valentine's gift for his girlfriend, replacing the 4th phone he's smashed and and his other discretionary spending. This is a good thing! That other people can choose to give their children lots more money to spend on branded clothing and multiple social events is not of relevance.

Actually, I went to sleep, and then to work. Just finished reading all the replies in my lunch break.

I think it’s good that your teaching him to budget at this age, although I do find him having to spend his allowance on clothes a bit much, £60 isn’t much to expect him to do all of that with. I would help him with his friends gift and tell him he has to take up an extra chore in the house for it. I get what your doing and the point your making but I do think it’s a little harsh to not help him, if he was 20 I’d say no let him learn but at 15 he’s still learning about how to handle money so he’s going to make mistakes.

I think you're exceptionally generous. It should be a good learning curve for him to plan for unexpected expenditure.

Mine don’t get that much per week pocket money however o buy all their clothing essentials and this includes casual. If they want something extra and specific they can save or use gifted money. I’ve one who’s a saver and one who’s a spender. Spender broke her iPad screen and it was £200 to fix which was still cheap compared to a new iPad. I made her save half of the money to get it fixed and paid the other half. Just to teach some responsibility as she can be quite careless with things. They also get a monthly amount off grandparents so probably end up with the same per month as your child OP but just for spending on non essentials, including friends’ birthday presents. I pay phone contract, and provide everything the need. They just buy extras that they want. I haven’t increased it as one would end up with loads more saved and the other would just spend twice as much on non essentials (bubble teas, sweets, macdonalds etc). I do have a rule that if they choose to eat out with friends then they pay, as we have food in that’s being made, but if I’m late from work and they need a quick tea to be able to get back to school for something then I’ll transfer them the extra cash for food. I should also add that my spender child is much younger than OP’s and y7 at school but saver child is the same age.

You’re incredibly harsh, you expect a 15 year old to save 50% of his money? He’s trying to be kind, generous and thoughtful and wishes to buy his friend a birthday present. He hasn’t spent his money on trainers, McDonald’s and cannabis like most 15 year olds! Jeez, let him breath a bit and give him some money for this present. Teaching your kids about budgeting and finances is important but so is them knowing their parents will help them

£60 a month to cover all of that isn’t much, especially as it covers clothes & going out etc. Clothes (even unbranded ones) are ridiculously expensive.
Could you help him find a small job to earn some money perhaps? Or help him set himself up to sell things he doesn’t want anymore. Could he cut grass for a neighbour, for example or sell any of your unwanted items?
Learning to budget is brilliant but everything costs so much more now.

Shocking to make him buy his clothes at his age, UABVU

God I could never bee so stringent with money with my child, you can teach budgeting without being so strict with it

I’ve a 15 year old DD who gets £40 a month for pocket money which is also connected to her doing chores. She doesn’t pay for her mobile which is £12 a month and whilst she does pay for her clothes - they are clothes she’s choosing to buy above and beyond what I already buy for her. But if she needed a new phone there is no way I’d expect her to replace it herself. Whilst I encourage her to save I also respect it’s her money and she can choose to do with it what she wants.
a better option would be to give your son less money, buy his clothes (for which you have a responsibility as a parent and yes this includes clothes that are not school uniform) and put £20 aside for him separately like in a trust fund or something.