WWYD: Son and Money

[ClamFandango]

DS (15yo) gets £60per month allowance, from which he pays for his phone contract (sim only: £6), and all non-school uniform clothes plus socialising, snacks etc.
He is not good at saving, although we encourage him to save £30 per month - so that it doesn't all get spent on snacks and small things. On top of that he will usually ask for money from family for birthday and Christmas, and usually gets given about £150 in total each time. He tends to save up for a bit and then blow the lot on a big ticket item (usually equipment for his music hobby, clothes or gifts for friends).
He recently bought his sister a v generous birthday gift, and a valentine gift for his girlfriend. Then he dropped his mobile phone and it broke - repair cost barely less than replacement (with secondhand reconditioned phone), so he spent £200 on a new secondhand phone, which cleaned his savings out and we had to advance him £60, which wipes out his next two months' savings (so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school).
This morning he was sad that he won't be able to buy his best friend a birthday present next month, and got very defensive when I suggested he was angling for a further loan / more cash from us. I said he wasn't getting any more money from me beyond the allowance, less the loan he already owes, and he had to learn to save more prudently.

We could afford to give him something to buy the friend a present, but the purpose behind the allowance is to teach him budgeting. We feel so mean saying "tough luck - you've spent up and that's it. Tell your friend you'll get him something in a couple of months' time". AIBU to take this stance?

Just wondering what his child benefit is spent on if you are paying the allowance from your money.
I think you are teaching him budgeting better than some of those who are at Uni and still being bank rolled by their parents.
my DS got a job at M & S at 16 and carried on working there through his Uni years .

I don't get the angst over the clothes buying tbh. My kids are on half that (£30 per month) and buy clothes and toiletries (other than underwear, school uniform, 1 pair of trainers and a coat, and usual family stuff like soap and toothpaste.) My DS aged 15 is a ninja saver - has a paper round and has saved enough to buy himself parts to build a PC over the past year.

My DD particularly is very aware of ethical shopping so the majority of her clothes come from Vinted. It's not difficult.

So no OP, yanbu.

Yes you absolutely should bail him out he is a child

All the angst is because it is a parent’s responsibility to clothe their child!

As usual OP you're getting piled on by posters who haven't bothered to read all your posts.
People are still banging on about the savings when you're quite clear that the dual account is for him to sort of manage his budget.

If all you can afford is £720, then it doesn't matter whether you OR your son buys the clothes, yes? You have just given him the choice rather than making it for him.

Contrary to other posters I don't see 'generosity' as a good thing when you can't afford it. He's only 15 but it's the thought not the amount of money that counts. Why did he buy his sister and GF such expensive gifts? What did she get him? Why the big fuss over a friends' birthday? I didn't think 15 year olds even bought each other birthday presents.

You should allow him to maybe do chores or something to earn the money back. But you shouldn't just give it to him. And if you can't afford it, maybe it's time to buy the stuff he needs, like clothes and phone/SIM, yourself, and give him limited money for socialising only. You can buy him a cheap smartphone instead of a Samsung/Google Pixel, for example.

Are all his friends better off than him btw?

They are not covering the basics though because other than a coat they are not providing any clothes or shoes to wear outside of school.

Fair enough if they brought him a couple of pairs of jeans/ joggers, a few t shirts and some trainers (don’t need to be expensive ones) but he has to buy them himself.

You wouldn’t need to ‘bail’ him out if you didn’t make him pay for pretty much everything a month out of £60! No way near enough!

My DD is only 12 and gets £30 pocket money but we cover her phone bill, clothing, toiletries, school account money, pretty much everything else.

Social services say Foster Children are to be given £15 a week for general spending so £60 per month, SIM for phone £8 per month paid by Foster Carers, all clothing £40 per month and activities £60-100 per month paid for by Foster Carers. Plus £15 per week put onto a lunch card by Foster Carers. Foster Carers to save £5 per week for DC. This is the minimum LAC are deemed to need at 15. It goes up at 16.

I have a 15 year old who gets £30 a month pocket money, I pay her mobile phone bill of £40 a month and I pay for all of her clothes. School holidays she gets more money if she is going out with friends.
She is expected to keep her room clean and tidy and clear up after tea a few times a week.
I feel like this is fair, she is in school and is not at the age were she can earn money.
She will save up for birthday presents and Mother’s Day etc but I will help with buying for friends if she needs me to.

I think expecting him to save £30 , paying £6 for a phone bill leaving him only £24 is unreasonable. That’s only £6 a week to spend.

at 15 both mine got £80 with no expectations to save but reminding them they needed to buy birthday and Christmas gifts or certain special people, we went half on all clothes(bar school uniform, sports clothes for activities(dancing)

at 20 and 22 I still pay both their phone bills though ds will take over his this year as he now has a full time job. Youngest is still at uni.

Yep - that's what the allowance is for. No way would I be spending £30 a month on clothing my child.

I don't think he should be buying all of his own non school clothes with that amount. Also if you want to teach him financial responsibility why isn't his phone insured? £5 a month, £50 excess. Financially responsible people insure their expensive items.
The only debt I have is my mortgage, I grew up very poor and even I wasn't expected to buy my own clothes out of my pocket money. A particularly desired item that was less practical I might have to wait for birthday or Christmas but I grew from 5'2 to 5'9 between 14 and 18 no way could I have clothed myself on that budget.
It's less than £15 a week for phone, all socialising and clothing. He also seems kind, spending hours saved money on his sister and girlfriend.

What’s the point of having a child when you choose to provide nothing above the basics for them when they’re still a minor?

You sound ridiculously tight and controlling.

£200 a month. To include general spending money, sporting activities, sim, lunch card money, clothing allowance. Out of that £20 is saved.

Get him a decent phone case, like an otter box. Should help with the phone damaging.

@19lottie82 he'll be expected to buy that from his allowance....

Not all kids want to go around in crap clothing though.
One jumper can cost £30. It’s not a lot of money.

Phone needs to be insured, he needs a phone case. His budget increased to £100pm, you leave him to budget.

Well is that the 'recommended amount', upon which the allowance etc is calculated, or legally mandated?
IMO the £ pound is irrelevant as savvy people can get things for less. Especially for children as they grow so quickly, Vinted etc is a great source of second-hand clothes.

As PP said we're in CoL, if parents can't afford it they can't. Their kids just have to accept that they can't buy gifts, snacks or socialise.

The issue here is really how much the OP herself would have spent on things. If that's the amount she has, then complaining that she doesn't 'buy' the clothes is just creative accounting. She could buy it all, and then give him a minuscule allowance. Job done. But people will still be complaining that it's 'not enough'.

Of course if she COULD afford it and was simply being stingy it's a different story.

BTW it's not 'just' £60, OP also gives her son an additional £10 towards lunch with friends!

But a pair of trainers is nearly always over £100! 15 year old boys grow rapidly, they want the same brands and clothes as their friends.

He's 15 not 25 with a job. You are supposed to pay for his clothes and things he needs not just give him 60pm and expect him to buy everything he needs with that. You are seriously taking the biscuit. Neglectful OP.

For me I think your approach is good. My parents encouraged something similar - we split our allowance in 3 - casual savings (clothes, gifts etc), long term savings - put in a bank and we didn't really consider it part of the allowance, but it grew over time and we both used parts of it at 16+, and spending.

Myself and my sibling have never had debt, both worked from age 16 and have always worked, both budget effectively and both purchased houses with mortgages having saved a deposit and sometimes 'gone without' to do so.

Granted back then there weren't really mobile phones and spending was a little less fickle, but it is really good to learn to budget.

In this instance probably I would cut a little slack he has proven quite a few times he can save to gift to people etc - have a conversation and treat him as an adult, if it means a lot to him to gift his friend agree an amount and either agree chores to cover it, or a repayment plan. Discuss ways to avoid it occurring in future and make it known that it's a one off, and for him to always plan and prepare to avoid this. That may mean less generous gifts, less snacks etc for a period so he can up his savings, making sure to build a 'buffer' for emergencies.

The phone has shown the importance of having a buffer to him, and that can be a good thing before he learns that by living to last penny when in his own place and then having a washing machine/other item suddenly break

Agree with this. Poor kid.

Branded trainers are a want, not a need by any stretch of the imagination! JFC.