WWYD: Son and Money

[ClamFandango]

DS (15yo) gets £60per month allowance, from which he pays for his phone contract (sim only: £6), and all non-school uniform clothes plus socialising, snacks etc.
He is not good at saving, although we encourage him to save £30 per month - so that it doesn't all get spent on snacks and small things. On top of that he will usually ask for money from family for birthday and Christmas, and usually gets given about £150 in total each time. He tends to save up for a bit and then blow the lot on a big ticket item (usually equipment for his music hobby, clothes or gifts for friends).
He recently bought his sister a v generous birthday gift, and a valentine gift for his girlfriend. Then he dropped his mobile phone and it broke - repair cost barely less than replacement (with secondhand reconditioned phone), so he spent £200 on a new secondhand phone, which cleaned his savings out and we had to advance him £60, which wipes out his next two months' savings (so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school).
This morning he was sad that he won't be able to buy his best friend a birthday present next month, and got very defensive when I suggested he was angling for a further loan / more cash from us. I said he wasn't getting any more money from me beyond the allowance, less the loan he already owes, and he had to learn to save more prudently.

We could afford to give him something to buy the friend a present, but the purpose behind the allowance is to teach him budgeting. We feel so mean saying "tough luck - you've spent up and that's it. Tell your friend you'll get him something in a couple of months' time". AIBU to take this stance?

My daughter is very responsible and respectful and knows the value of money. Always is willing to help and kind and generous, so is not spoilt in any way.

When I was 15 I got £80 per month, that was 25 years ago. £40 was for general spend and £40 was ‘clothing allowance’.

I think you’re being really mean. One of mine is a couple of years younger, gets £10/week, phone paid for (handset bought outright, older model, monthly top up paid by us) and then extra if they go into town or for a milkshake/McDonald’s. I also pay for bus fares/train fares locally on top. They buy some clothes with birthday money but I usually go halves if it’s expensive and branded. After a few bits, make up, jewellery, stationery etc, there’s very little change from £10 at all. I was actually thinking of upping the allowance! Costs have risen so much OP and you don’t seem to have taken that into account at all. It’s about £5 for a magazine, decent trainers are usually £50 minimum, even somewhere like Sports Direct, sounds like your lad is doing his best but it was really tight of you to make him replace his phone handset himself. I’d have done that through insurance or paid at least half, if not the whole lot.

My children never had to buy their own clothes at that age and I think I gave them about £10 week . That was 15 years ago . They all had a Saturday job / paper round earning another £15 plus a week. Definitely think you are being quite harsh and you could end up with relationship problems in the future.
FWIW I do agree that kids need to learn to budget but the expectation has to be reasonable!

For how much you expect him to save you aren't actually allowing him any freedom at all. He's 15 and like someone else said he's expected to use £24 a month to buy snacks, have a social life and buy himself clothes: it's not doable.
I understand you can't afford to give him more but if you expect him to cover so much then you can't dictate him having to save it.
Encourage him to look for a part time job and save a portion of his wage.

I never had to buy my own clothes until I started earning nor did my son. It’s still parents’ responsibility at 15.

You ask what others do. For my similar-aged teen, they get £40 a month pocket money. Then every quarter they get £75 clothing allowance. For the clothing it’s the same deal - we still buy underwear, uniform (school + activities, including footwear), and a decent coat. Often buy clothing at birthdays/Christmas too.

So basically my teen gets £65 a month to your £60.

But, we pay the phone contract (SIM only) and buy the second-hand phone. To me the phone is an important priority as I need them to be contactable, so that’s a family cost. And I pay school lunches/activities etc.

I have no particular expectations over savings rate, although I encourage them to think what they might need to save up for.

Sounds like your lad has a good grasp on budgeting and saving and just got hit by the unexpected. And he’s generous and prioritises his friends and family. I’d help him out.

Edited to add: if it’s real-world budgeting experience you’re teaching him, let him negotiate how long the phone loan takes to pay off. Let him put £20 into savings for 3 months instead of £30 for 2 months. Best mates birthdays only come once a year, savings can take longer to build back up.

People are ignoring the fact that OP says that is all she can afford. I don't think it's nice to shame her for what her family income can facilitate.

I used to get £120 per month back in 2001/2002. We were in a good financial position, I totally recognise that, but it was a decent amount to buy clothes, socialise, put savings aside, buy pet food and accessories (my sole responsibility). £60 does sound too low. What happens if he needs to replace a jumper or his trainers? Surely it wipes the whole lot out?

I doubt he could save 30 a month even if he was very frugal. Can he get a part time job?
Also the notion that he's skinting himself to buy gifts for his mates seems a bit mad. What gifts do they give him? If he's trying to buy people's affections it's a slippery slope. You're right not to give him any more money.

I wouldn't make him pay for presents out of that. It sounds doable for clothes and spending money to 'fritter away' (which to me sounds like letting him be a teen and spend on some treats, not frittering away).

I also wouldn't expect him to pay for essential clothes - I'd cover coats (1 winter and 1 lighter one), underwear, socks and PJ'S. Nor would I expect to save half each month.

Are you going to accept that you are being unreasonable yet OP? £24 a month to socialise, buy gifts and clothe himself is ridiculous.

My son gets £40 a month and I buy all his clothes. I also pay for his phone, Xbox subscription and boxing lessons. He has the equivalent of £10 a week for any extras - snacks, bus fare to meet his mates etc.

He has a good chunk of money in savings and puts any Christmas/birthday money he gets in there too.

Thanks for this insight. The first 4 items on your list, we would cover.
The phone contract thing, we have a family account with 5 SIMs - costs us about £85 per month - and we charge the children £6 for theirs (which they were paying 5 years ago for SIM only) so I think that's way less than market rate.
Lunch with friends, I'd give him £10 towards.
So of your daughter's spends, my son would have to find £148. I actually couldn't afford to give both of my children that amount of money.
Thankfully they socialise quite cheaply - after school activities, and only the occasional weekend in town.

You are being far too tight . You must know that £60 goes nowhere these days .
Expecting him to buy as much as you do out of it is just not fair

If that’s what you can afford then that’s what you can afford. It’s just the way it is. But if you can afford an extra £20 for him to buy his friend a gift then I’d give it to him, as he’s just had to buy himself a new phone.

My kids had 70€ young. All clothes and presents but not phones or travel.

I'd also buy a lot of basics for stockings at Christmas. They'd also get about 500€ plus a year in cash from relatives.

One buys and sells in vintage pretty successfully. I always allow them to earn as much extra as they have an appetite for.

Bless him! He's spending most of it on other people it seems! This is quite different to asking for money to buy something for himself that he wants.

I disagree with some PPs about the clothes issue - I think it's fine that he has a budget for this. My parents did similar for me as a teenager so that I had more control over it. Though if shoes are included I'm not sure that's enough.

I do also think it's a bit unfair that his phone broke and he had to pay for it himself. It's a refurbished phone, not anything ridiculous. Maybe I'd have contributed half of the cost, unless he was a serial phone breaker. I would go back to him and say that you'll do that now, then that will give him enough money for his best friend's present.

Wow! My daughter is 15 and gets £10/week to spend on whatever she wants - and she saves it to buy me birthday & Christmas presents and anything special she wants like hair masks or make up. She lost her AirPods and she bought herself some new ones but apart from that, I wouldn’t expect her to be buying clothes etc.

He's 15 you could've paid for the phone tbh

He has £60 per month. The savings are not untouchable. He can spend them as he likes, but given that he does not need new clothes or to buy gifts etc every month, we encourage him to put that amount aside, so that when he wants / needs new clothes or to buy a gift, he can do so. The savings are there to be spent. He spends them. He regularly has nothing left - as is now the case.

Nowhere near enough when he has to buy his own clothes. I think this is shameful tbh

Do you save 50% of your take home pay? It's not a bad thing to encourage saving but a tenner a month would be more realistic. £30 for phone, clothes, snacks, socialising, gifts for others is nothing.

This

It’s even more unreasonable if you’re also saying you’re not allowing him to get a job!

If you want to teach him about real life, that’s the way to do it, get a paper round or part time job to work & earn the extra.

When he barely has any money available to him it’s pointless expecting him to save, the same way you wouldn’t ask someone on benefits why they aren’t saving or can’t afford a new phone.

I have a 15 year old cousin and she gets £25 per week, her parents pay for her phone and any clothes although she does also use her money for extra clothes she wants. She does save some from this amount and has learned to budget. If her phone broke she would not be expected to pay for that. She also does a paper round on a Saturday morning for an extra £10 a week.

£20 a week and we buy dd17 clothes. If she eats out we will bung another £10-15 towards that.

The £20 is for snacks, coffee shop, trinkets