WWYD: Son and Money

[ClamFandango]

DS (15yo) gets £60per month allowance, from which he pays for his phone contract (sim only: £6), and all non-school uniform clothes plus socialising, snacks etc.
He is not good at saving, although we encourage him to save £30 per month - so that it doesn't all get spent on snacks and small things. On top of that he will usually ask for money from family for birthday and Christmas, and usually gets given about £150 in total each time. He tends to save up for a bit and then blow the lot on a big ticket item (usually equipment for his music hobby, clothes or gifts for friends).
He recently bought his sister a v generous birthday gift, and a valentine gift for his girlfriend. Then he dropped his mobile phone and it broke - repair cost barely less than replacement (with secondhand reconditioned phone), so he spent £200 on a new secondhand phone, which cleaned his savings out and we had to advance him £60, which wipes out his next two months' savings (so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school).
This morning he was sad that he won't be able to buy his best friend a birthday present next month, and got very defensive when I suggested he was angling for a further loan / more cash from us. I said he wasn't getting any more money from me beyond the allowance, less the loan he already owes, and he had to learn to save more prudently.

We could afford to give him something to buy the friend a present, but the purpose behind the allowance is to teach him budgeting. We feel so mean saying "tough luck - you've spent up and that's it. Tell your friend you'll get him something in a couple of months' time". AIBU to take this stance?

My parents did similar to us from age 13
The rule was we got £50 a month (quite a lot in the late 90's) but extra's we would pay for (e.g. trip to the cinema with friends)

My parents would pay for clothes but if e.g. we needed trainers they would cover the amount of a basic pair and we would then need to fund the difference to get a pair of branded ones.

I got a paper round and did 4 hours in a shop on a sat and a sunday from age 13 and it stood me in good stead to learn to budget.

My son now if he wants something e.g. a game he will come and present us with the cash to purchase it (he gets cash for birthday and christmas) and he is 11

I don't see anything wrong with teaching budgeting at a young age.

He’s not. That’s the amount he gets from relatives.

The thing I really can’t get my head round is having a family SIM package and then charging the kids for them. I’ve heard of tight but that’s beyond my wildest imaginings.

MY DD is 13 and she GROWS like all the time. Last years summer clothes won't fit this summer. This means replacing her core wardrobe every 6 months or so. Even without shoes and undies that is roughly 20-40 quid per pair of trousers, 5 - 20 quid per top, 15 - 20 quid for a hoodie, sportswear, swim wear, a dress or two... So 3 trousers, 5 tops, 3 hoodies, 2 sets of sportswear and a swim suit is around 250quid.

If you expect him to buy shoes that's roughly 30 - 50 quid per time and they need sandals, trainers, shoes shoes, more trainers....

For socialising it costs money for McDs, or icecream, or swimming or bowling, or transport.... We aren't even starting on computer games, those cost a fortune!

Basically I buy my kids clothes and pay her transport costs and her phone. Then she spends her allowance on socialising, computer games, snacks, gifts for her friends.

I think you are being very unreasonable!

my parents didn’t have a lot when I was a young teen in the early 90s, so my mum saved and gave me the child benefit directly - like you she covered school uniform etc but if I wanted trainers for say £40 then I’d have to save four weeks (£10.50 a week back then). She’d save up for me and hand over when I was ready. It was a great way to teach me to budget. The only criticism I have is the amount ££ you expect your son to budget seems a little low. I did ok in the early 90s but I dont think what you’re giving ££ translates well for 2024.
I’d 100% do the same if I had a teenager now, but £60 and expecting half to be saved is ridiculous to be fair.

That isn't enough money. Budgeting is good, but only if he has enough money to actually do it.
My son only gets £40 per month but he still gets whatever clothes and shoes he needs bought for him. Otherwise he can save up if he's got his eye on something special. I never expect him to use his own money to buy presents for his friends. I pay for my children's phones until they are at least 18 if they are still studying.
If you want your son to pay for everything you mentioned, you need to give him a lot more.

Sorry OP, but you sound exceptionally mean and petulant. You did ask.

I don’t think anyone on this thread is saying that teens learning how to budget is wrong. What people are saying is that £60 per month just isn’t enough for what is expected. Budgeting ( for me) means having to purchase the £30 item of clothing rather than paying out £60. Not being able to even afford the £30 seems to be the situation this teen is in. As he is expected to fund his own clothes, mobile phone etc I personally believe a much larger budget is needed, at least double the £60 currently being provided, probably more. Or is it just me that actually pays today’s prices for clothing and has teens who grow with remarkable speed?

I think that allowance is absolutely fine for buying clothes etc. (and I fully approve of the thinking that being given that responsibility helps to encourage good budgeting) but I do think that expecting him to save half of it is too much. £30 per month isn't much if you need to buy a present, maybe a pair of jeans, and may be a trip to the cinema. I think it should be up to him whether he saves enough to pay for presents etc. it's all part of learning to budget, and that big expenses like maybe a new coat once a year and replacing essential equipment should be paid for by you. If the equipment (phone) is broken because of carelessness, then he should pay it back monthly (you could maybe just give £10/£20 less each month) but don't give him any other handouts when he wants to buy something he should have budgeted for.

That’s totally different amounts of money though, £60 today is not a lot and he’s to get his own clothes and trainers

That's very tight ,even if he wasn't expected to buy his own clothes and food at school out if it

I think the idea is fine but the execution needs tweaking

£50 a month allowance, £10 a week on parent pay and we buy most of his clothes and pay his phone. Big ticket items (air force 1's for example would be a birthday or xmas present) but trackies/t-shirts etc we buy and not just cheap primark ones. £60 a month if he has grown and needs trackies would mean around £45 if he got a '2 for' offer in sports direct, that would leave him just £25 that month for everything else you make him buy. The Mercier/Hoodrich stuff comes in at around £50 a pair, No, they dont need these but a lot of teens wear them

Hmm. I think it's your obligation to clothe him 24 hours per day, 7 days per week, and 365 days per year. Giving him only school clothes, pjs, and jackets, doesn't really cover that. Casual wear for weekends etc is an essential, it's not really a "pocket money" item. He still has to wear clothing on Saturdays and Sundays! If you work out the likely annual cost of clothing for a growing boy and subtract that from his total annual pocket money, the remainder is his actual pocket money. Then you expect him to save half of the gross amount, I don't know, it seems a bit of a stretch.

On 60 quid a month at 15 years old I think he's doing fantastically well in managing his money. I am amazed he can save 30 a month, to be honest. 30 quid on socialising and clothes goes absolutely nowhere these days.

This…£60 a month does not buy much in the way of 15 year old boy clothes in my experience. My 15 year old wears a men’s large….a pair of trackies from Primark can be £15 on their own.

I am flabbergasted you make him buy all his own clothes. Actually I think it’s pissing cruel.

£60 for his own phone and a bit of spends seems reasonable but having to ask for advances and loans seems draconian

I think this sums it up, basically.

Your ideas are fine in principle but what you are giving is nowhere near enough for what you are expecting him to fund, OP. Especially not when you are instructing him to save half of it.

In all honesty I don't think a 15yo should be expected to fund his own phone contract, gifts for friends or casual clothes UNLESS he is one of those teens who has a fondness for silly expensive designer gear or expensively luxurious gifts. If he's one of these who wants to spend £££ on a T shirt or pair of trainers, then fair enough to expect him to fund it himself / save up for it.

Too harsh - it’s v v unreasonable to expect him to pay for y and clothes.

edit to say - I think it’s quite sad tbh, very mean of you.

Is there anything you pay for which he could do, gardening, car washing, window cleaning, for example that he could do to earn extra money? Brilliant to teach budgetting but this is a very very small amount to buy clothes with. Appreciate it’s difficult though if youve simply not got any more to give.

When me and sister were in our teens we got £50 at Christmas to buy our ‘Christmas clothes’ so really a new outfit for Christmas parties etc and few bits more, this did not go very far at all, and this was the 80’s, it was also shite that we got new clothes for Christmas , very unexciting !

can he do a paper round to earn cash and teach budgetting to top it up ?

I had to pay for all the things like him when I was that age. Including my school clothes and toiletries and everything. My allowance was £200 a month, and that was 20 years ago.

His allowance is not enough if you expect him to buy everything except school clothes, including his phone, snacks and savings etc. You’re expecting too much. Poor lad.

I don’t give my 14yr old DS pocket money as he doesn’t need it. He still leaves me to buy clothes etc as he’s not really interested in fashion so will happily wear whatever I buy inc. charity shop items.

What I do find strange is the idea of him buying his friends birthday gifts. Is that quite common? I’m not aware of any kids buying presents for each other at this age and I don’t think it happened when I was growing up either?

Things like Mothers Day etc., DH will facilitate a card and a gift for DS to give me.

Mine got £80 a month but I paid for phone contracts and a basic wardrobe included shoes/trainers.
It is difficult if that is all you can afford but it isn't very much when you expect him to save half of it - could he save £15 a month?

He sounds like a kind boy and your stance is not kind.

OP clearly states that her 15 year old has to buy school snacks from his pocket money.

Quote from OP:
"(so his allowance is down to £30 per month, which is generally earmarked for phone contract and snacks at school)."

My point is that a basic school lunch at midday isn't enough for an active teen, to get through the day. I give enough for a croissant/roll/pizza slice at breakfast or break time. Maybe OP provides snacks he can take with him, but I wouldn't be surprised if the snack cupboard is padlocked!

I agree. It’s so mean and DS probably won’t forget this

I'm astonished by the figs bandied about here!

I pay 30 as and when I can. Dd 16

We pay dd phone 6 ponds a month, unlimited calls and data, and gig data.

She gets a few new clothes pieces at Xmas and bday and I mostly buy her what she needs but she doesn't have the room capacity for new clothes every single month!! That's crazy!!

Toiletries etc? We share usual stuff...

What on earth are people buying for 60 a week??

BTW we all love clothes and dress nicely!

Both dc save bday and Xmas money, and keep half back. 11 year old is saving for a lap top.
Older dc paid half of 400 lap top.

Both understand investing and compounding.

Neither complain or want more money at all.