To think lots of women are happier when men aren’t around

[Smellsofspring]

As in husbands/partners

I don’t mean in all cases and not all the time…but I have noticed it in so many situations. A girls lunch/night out with just my girlfriends is a lot happier/freer/more fun than when our partners join. The dynamics are different, most friends are more dampened versions of themselves when they’re around and I sometimes sense tension. Even family type play dates, if we do just mums and kids, again the atmosphere is better without out other halves. My mum, I can see is visibly happier when just us girls (sister and I) and kids hang out or she tells me when Dh is out as she gets some peace.
My Dsis is 100% a happier and different person as a single mum, than she was in relationships. She’s fun and talkative now, but was moody and withdrawn in previous partners company at family do’s etc.
I personally have had some nice days out/short breaks with Dh and Dd, but my fondest memories have been just her and I and our adventures together. In those memories we’d sing and dance in the car as we drove to places, no stress when driving, no complaining/moods, just pure joy and embracing things.
I don’t hate men, but this is something I notice more and more the older I get

Marriage is not good for human relationships

@Thepeopleversuswork what do you mean?

I'm quite enjoying my marriage.

It's personal, obviously.

Marriage didn't suit me (or my ex). It made me feel very hemmed in and limited.

Maybe situation specific but a lot of women have told me the same thing: they feel that marriage limits them and curtails them from becoming their full self. They become part of a whole which is greater than the sum of the parts.

I guess some people like being part of that whole. I found it very stifling.

@Ace56

Similarly, I’ve seen my 60-something mum and her friends who are in the post-menopausal ‘men are useless to us’ stage. My mum loves my dad but honestly at this stage I do feel like her life is much easier when he’s away or out for the day and she’s not having to put up with his grumpiness/moods and general old man moaning.

Yes it's definitely a phenomenon I am seeing (I'm a fair bit younger than your mum).

As a general rule (and obviously there are exceptions) men ten to turn inward as they get older: their horizons narrow, they become more boring and set in their ways and more dependent on their spouse for everything. Generally speaking women tend to become outward looking and adventurous after their children become more independent.

After 20 years of looking after other people a lot of women quite understandably decide they are not prepared to spend another two decades subsuming their needs to another full grown adult, particularly one who has little interest in anything beyond the end of his living room.

Maybe it's as simple as you choose your friends, not their partners, but there is an ease amongst all group of all bonded women which is delightful if you're lucky enough to discover it

I wouldn't put myself in this category but I think it's pretty accurate in a lot of cases.

The other thing is that it depends on the group. If it's a group of friends who've brought their OH's who don't know anyone else there it's obvious the woman's attention is going to be split between her friends and her OH so he doesn't feel ignored/left out as that's just good manners when you introduce someone new (at least for the start of the get together). If it's a long-established friendship group then it will be different.

Yes, mostly.

I think it must depend on the men (and women) that one consorts with.

Really agree about the penny dropping post-DC. I was attracted to DP for lots of really good reasons ‐they're still valid. Post-DC, however, it became painfully evident that DP, who had struck me as having the patience of a saint, and was fantastic with animals and the frail and elderly, really couldn't manage on less-than-optimal sleep. DF's dorky, funny, brilliant scientist DP who seemed adorable pre-DC, was revealed to need to control aspects of his environment to the point that it sucked the joy out of it for everyone else. He's still funny and brilliant.
And so on.

I disagree in that I am not less happy in my DH's company, at all, and I do not connect with that part of your post. I am probably happiest WITH my DH on holiday.

HOWEVER I am definitely more quiet and less happy in a couple socialising situation. Not because of my own DH but because having your friends' partners there changes the dynamic, they are not who I would choose to hang out with obviously. They are only there by association so obviously you have to be more polite, conersation is more stilted etc

100%, I agree many women are different when their DP’s are around

I do know what you mean.

As men age, they seem to become more needy and clingy. I've noticed this a lot. Many of them have shit personal skills and are poor conversationalists. They also become more insular and less sociable as they age. In fact, women seem to be more vulnerable when young but stronger in later life. With men it's the reverse – they get weaker and more dependent. Women are better at reaching out and starting up conversations. Both my father and my grandfather got like this in later life. They clung to their wives and would literally sulk when they went anywhere.

Also, a lot of men are just SO flippin boring. They don't like/can't be bothered to talk, and aren't interested in what their partners have to say. About the only things most men talk about are themselves, football, Formula One, their car or their job (which they usually hate).

You must be talking with the wrong men then.

We are going away for the weekend and I have been thinking all week that I wish it was just the baby and me going!

I think a lot of men become dull and boring as they age, as well as grumpy.
I much prefer living alone now l am in my 50s and could never go back.
All of friends are female, l don't miss male company at all. I'm not anti male, but no desire to be around them. I much prefer the company of my sisters and friends when their partners aren't around, we talk differently.

Hope you are OK

I don't recognise this at all. Much prefer mixed groups and I love it when my DH is around (most of the time, we all need our own space sometimes and sometimes he is grumpy as am I!). We also sing in the car on all long journeys! I think you need to pick the men in your life more carefully!

I think you're right in a lot of cases as a lot of women have useless men.

For me, I wouldn't say I'm happier in all female company, but there's definitely a different dynamic. I wouldn't want that dynamic all the time. But I also don't want the dynamic that comes with mixed sex activities all the time either. I like to have both, at different times.

A good dinner party with both sexes can be super fun. Similarly, I absolutely love an evening out with just female friends. For example.

This 100%.

Great big dollops of both sexism and ageism on this thread - MN bingo!

I agree OP, I like most of the men in my extended family well enough, but I don't feel they particularly add anything of value to conversation/gatherings. I much prefer the company of women/girls and am definitely more at ease/free/silly when among women. That's easy for me to say though as I only have sisters, only have daughters, I don't speak to my father and recently separated from my husband, so I don't have any misplaced loyalty to men that other women might wrangle with.

I've changed my entire worldview since having daughters and am now setting about to curate my own matriarchy!

I was on a day out with my dad & DH at the weekend. Couldn’t stop to look at anything. Couldn’t queue to get food (was at a festival). Dad got bored & bailed, fine, see ya! DH got hangry & started a strop. I spotted a bus on the horizon, and shoved him (in front) onto it. So long, sucker! Me & DS then did what we wanted (browsing, eating, relaxing).

@Midwinter91 I feel like that a lot, what makes you feel like that? It’s often just easier and more fun!

This is my dad to a tee, for the last 15 years I know he hates it when he is separated from my mum. When she goes out for the entire day, its so annoying that I don't get much alone time with her as he spoils it for us, I just thought it was him, but it seems like its typical male behaviour.

It wouldn’t be so bad if men like that made an effort. But both my father and grandfather were selfish, miserable and negative. I’ve seen the same pattern over and over again. The husband doesn’t seem to enjoy his wife’s company or to be interested in what she’s done or what she’s got to say. But when she goes out he sulks and plays up.

I often wonder what will happen if we find ways of radically extending the lifespan. Various life-extending drugs and technologies are under development right now. Imagine if we raise the lifespan to 130, as some predict. So many 70 or 80-year-old women would divorce their husbands.