Page 14 | To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

ballybean · 2024-03-14T23:49:48+00:00

My son's school has an all glass isolation room in the hall with three desks, children are put there as punishment? Teachers and students walking passed

LocalHobo · 15/03/2024 13:51

I suspect around 10 teachers are leaving my school over the next few months due to the children’s behaviour.
well done to this school for doing something that might help stem the utter chaos currently in schools.
Exactly.
. It says everything about the culture of our country I have seen similar (a section of the reception area) in the U.S.,so certainly not confined to the U.K.

GoodnightAdeline · 15/03/2024 13:55

And to follow on from my last comment it starts young. Parents let themselves be walked over by toddlers. I see them letting their 3 year olds climb all over them elbowing them in the face, taking their food, endlessly shouting to interrupt if they dare speak to anyone else. They just let them, or distract them, so they never learn they’re irritating somebody or behaving unacceptably.

StarlightLime · 15/03/2024 13:57

Cactusdaff · 15/03/2024 13:47

I don't think anyone has actually said that there shouldn't be any consequences. You can apply firm consequences without humiliation. If you can't appreciate the separation - even if you still choose to use humiliation in your own life - then you are the problem, I'm sorry if that's hard for you to hear.

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I'm even sorrier that someone talking sense is hard for you to hear <head tilt>

GoodnightAdeline · 15/03/2024 14:00

smooththecat · 15/03/2024 13:38

It’s amazing how many people here, clearly including some who work with children and are meant to have a basic understanding of human behaviour, don’t understand AT ALL the fact that more than one thing can be going on at once inside a person. The subject in the glass box may in fact be exhibiting a gung-ho attitude/badge of honour etc. They may ALSO be experiencing deep shame AT THE SAME TIME. Wild concept. They may carry this memory for the rest of their lives. The behaviours and feelings may even be connected. It says everything about the culture of our country and schools that some people think that all this is fine and we just need to bully people a bit harder until they comply.

We do. It isn’t as simple as ‘if we do X, they’ll do Y’. Some people are inherent bad apples that don’t give a fuck. They won’t feel remorse, they won’t reflect and change their behaviour, so the only thing that will stop them misbehaving is by physically preventing them or making it so there’s a personal impact at the end which makes it not worth doing for them.

I don’t feel one person’s ’humiliation’ matters more than the class they’re disrupting. In fact, I don’t care, actually.

Seaside3 · 15/03/2024 14:10

@Cactusdaff using cameras relies on someone monitoring them constantly. That's not going to happen. Or they may record the abuse, but at that point it's too late.

My dad was a teacher. He asked a bus queue jumper to go to the back of the queue. She accused him of being racist. He isn't. It's not hyperbolic to think they may want an open room, rather than a closed room, so everyone is accountable.

For what it's worth, I still disagree with the principle of isolation. I do not know what else teachers are meant to do though. I don't like the public element if this, but I can see why they might have chosen it.

I deliberately chose schools that were more forgiving for my children as I like them to be able to express themselves. I don't care if they wear their uniform the wrong way, or dye their hair. I do care that they are respectful, on time, with all equipment required. I would never chose a school woth a glass humiliation box, and would suggest the op moves her son if the school are not prepared to consider an alternative room for isolation.

DdraigGoch · 15/03/2024 14:13

Redundantrobin · 15/03/2024 10:44

now, now.

that kind of language will get you a stint in the glass box.

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It'll be worth it.

StuffyHuffyPuffy · 15/03/2024 14:29

What happened was that the disruption became terrible and collective punishments came in... a couple of kids in class were disruptive - whole class had an experiment cancelled, a couple of kids in class were disruptive - whole class had interesting project cancelled. Not to mention having to go over the same thing 10 times until everyone listens meaning learning decreases.

Penalising every well behaved kid for the behaviour of a few is completely out of order and frustrating for them. So what do you suggest happens with the disruptive kids so that the ones who want to learn aren't penalised?

DS is in Year 3, and four children in his class (1 girl, 3 boys) consistently ruin class projects/endeavours. DS becomes very frustrated as he looks forward to these things. It's sad to witness expectations melt into frustration. His teacher tries with them, but the four children dominate a lot of class time. We parents, in solidarity with schools, need to get involved with solving this issue of class disruption. I welcome all the ideas, even this glass box if it ends up working.

MrsSunshine2b · 15/03/2024 14:32

Putting a child is isolation is incredibly outdated regardless of what material the walls are made of.

WhiteLily1 · 15/03/2024 14:34

GoodnightAdeline · 15/03/2024 13:35

Good. Children who act out and disrupt the class should feel embarrassed. Life isn’t going to get any easier for them.

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Please please tell me you don’t have kids.

Sparsely · 15/03/2024 14:41

If the glass box is outdated, what is the more up to date alternative? (And don't say talking to them as that has no doubt been exhausted before they are put in there)

I think the glass box is just an extension of behaviour management used across our society. If people are a pain, you've tried to get them to stop but that hasn't work you cut them off. You see it in every Mumsnet chat: Divorce the husband. Sack the worker. Stop calling the friend. Ghost the person on Snapchat. Go grey rock with the parents. Don't answer the door unless they've sent a formal warning 2 days before.

Better children learn this valuable lesson in life earlier rather than later?

helpfulperson · 15/03/2024 14:50

Cactusdaff · 15/03/2024 13:47

I don't think anyone has actually said that there shouldn't be any consequences. You can apply firm consequences without humiliation. If you can't appreciate the separation - even if you still choose to use humiliation in your own life - then you are the problem, I'm sorry if that's hard for you to hear.

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What consequences do you think a school should use?

I don't agree with the box but am interested in what people think schools should do. The level of significant behaviour issues is massive in schools.

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 15/03/2024 15:03

I don't see a problem with it. If you don't want to be in it, then behave.

I don't know why words like "barbaric" are being thrown around; it's being kept in a room apart from your peers because you are disturbing them learning. Not sure why it's considered so wild that it's glass and therefore anyone can see you in there. There's plenty of meeting rooms set up like this in my office, and while you're not in there for punishment, anyone can see you.

ZebraDanios · 15/03/2024 15:10

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 15/03/2024 15:03

I don't see a problem with it. If you don't want to be in it, then behave.

I don't know why words like "barbaric" are being thrown around; it's being kept in a room apart from your peers because you are disturbing them learning. Not sure why it's considered so wild that it's glass and therefore anyone can see you in there. There's plenty of meeting rooms set up like this in my office, and while you're not in there for punishment, anyone can see you.

Everyone knows you’re in there for a meeting rather than everyone knowing you’re in there as a punishment, though. If there were a glass meeting room where they put the least productive worker (or something else bad) to go and work by themselves that day, that would be more akin to this situation.

Begsthequestion · 15/03/2024 15:19

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 15/03/2024 15:03

I don't see a problem with it. If you don't want to be in it, then behave.

I don't know why words like "barbaric" are being thrown around; it's being kept in a room apart from your peers because you are disturbing them learning. Not sure why it's considered so wild that it's glass and therefore anyone can see you in there. There's plenty of meeting rooms set up like this in my office, and while you're not in there for punishment, anyone can see you.

You can't really be this dense.

ThomasinaLivesHere · 15/03/2024 15:21

Such hyperbolic language being used you’d think they were being stripped and sprayed with a hose.

I think a lot of badly behaved kids would like others to know they’ve behaved badly so wouldn’t necessarily feel embarrassed or humiliated. Many don’t have shame about misbehaving.

GoodnightAdeline · 15/03/2024 15:23

WhiteLily1 · 15/03/2024 14:34

Please please tell me you don’t have kids.

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I do. One who received a glowing report from her teacher a week ago - confident but well behaved and top of the class.

Combattingthemoaners · 15/03/2024 16:09

Rollinroller · 15/03/2024 06:25

There is research which shows that internal isolation in secondary school is ineffective and disproportionately used for boys with SEN so I’m not sure this will help, more likely make it worse.

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I do agree isolation doesn’t work for lots of student but it does allow their classmates and teachers to have a day without constant disruption to their learning.

What do you propose schools do instead? There is no external services due to funding cuts and a real lack of internal support staff.

Thegoodbadandugly · 15/03/2024 16:14

Begsthequestion · 15/03/2024 13:17

Scary to know that likely most of these posters saying it's a good thing are also parents 😣

Hope it's just the trolls instead.

Have you not wondered why society is getting worst by the day?

Thegoodbadandugly · 15/03/2024 16:20

WhiteLily1 · 15/03/2024 14:34

Please please tell me you don’t have kids.

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Please don't tell us you do, children that are brought up with no consequences for their actions.

MyGooseisTotallyLoose · 15/03/2024 16:27

Thegoodbadandugly · 15/03/2024 16:20

Please don't tell us you do, children that are brought up with no consequences for their actions.

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But as long as their child is happy, even if that's being violent, agressive, disruptive, upsetting other children/teachere that's all OK remember!

shams05 · 15/03/2024 16:37

Is this glass box in the hall or in a hallway outside the office or something?
Is it that they are easily visible to office staff so don't need a specific member of staff free at all times to supervise, because I can't imagine a school hall having space for this?

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 15/03/2024 16:41

Begsthequestion · 15/03/2024 15:19

You can't really be this dense.

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Explain it to me like I am.

Whereareallthemillionaires · 15/03/2024 16:43

nopuppiesallowed · 15/03/2024 13:37

Badly behaved adults in the workplace can be warned then sacked. It's a bit difficult to sack a child.....
Perhaps those worrying about sanctions affecting the mental health of badly behaved children should be more worried about badly behaved children affecting the mental health of their teachers.

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And other children in the class who might actually want to learn something

Wingham · 15/03/2024 16:49

Combattingthemoaners · 15/03/2024 16:09

I do agree isolation doesn’t work for lots of student but it does allow their classmates and teachers to have a day without constant disruption to their learning.

What do you propose schools do instead? There is no external services due to funding cuts and a real lack of internal support staff.

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I’m sure parents who don’t want their kids in the glass box will be more than happy to pick them up and take them home.
They won’t be disrupting teachers and other students if they are no longer in the building.

IvorTheEngineDriver · 15/03/2024 16:53

ballybean · 15/03/2024 00:05

I find it so funny how I mentioned this to my group of friends and they were all shocked. I mention it here and of course it's totally acceptable!

We can just starting hitting kids again then, if they don't want to get a smack, they just have to behave!

I suspect your friends agreed because you are their friend.

Put to a group of randoms on the internet, I honesty cannot see what the issue is here. If they don't want to go into the sin-bin, thry behaving.

Plus, you have yet to come up with a viable alternative.