To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

[ballybean]

My son's school has an all glass isolation room in the hall with three desks, children are put there as punishment? Teachers and students walking passed

Another thought, some kids love an audience and whilst are 'bad' can be very disruptive. Sometimes those kids do need to be removed from their captive audience to calm down. We've all had class clowns, that just need a bit of time out to reflect/sort themselves out and then can return to lessons. It's being separated from their classmates that a lot of kids despise, so maybe it does work in some cases.

The kids who are constantly in isolation, they are the ones I feel for. It's clearly not working, but I'm not sure school's have resources to really help them

Then perhaps they shouldn't be messing around? See that's what's wrong these days, no accountability for their actions, this is why teachers can't teach because of disruptive students and then their parents are sticking up for them, then it only gets worst.

Tell your child they should not misbehave at school and then they won't get in trouble.

How many kids are flagged to pastoral support and it actually results in an actual change in behaviour? I can see it working for a kid who has a sudden behaviour change but PP have mentioned being in schools with good support that students and their parents refuse to access.

I doubt the kids actually feel humiliated, the kind of kids who would find it truly humiliating are precisely the kind of kids who would do their best to not be in there in the first place.

I've no problem with them being removed from class. Of course they have to go outside if disrupting class.

I don't like them being displayed in the hall like a caged animal. It's wrong. We all have our opinions but I think it's wrong. It doesn't sit well with me.

When I was in Junior school there was the bench. If you stood by the bench you had been naughty and a teacher had sent you there and everyone knew you had been naughty.

If you were sitting on the bench that was because you were feeling ill and either waiting parental pick up or having some quiet time out of class. I had to sit on the bench but felt uncomfortable even though I knew the rules of sitting and standing on or by the bench.

The point I'm making about the "glass enclosure" is If pupils were there because they had been naughty and they didn't like being stared at then perhaps they would think again in the future that misbehaving has consequences .

So what's your solution then?

Surely that's the whole point of a punishment
Oh dear think of the poor children, geting humiliated for behaving like little shits🙄

Personally I think its a bad idea, because there's enough controversy to enable students with parents who hold your views to use the schools 'humiliation' of them as a smokescreen for their behaviour. And before you know it, it stops being about how Johnny verbally abused his teacher, and starts being about Johnny as 'victim'

It already is though, @5128gap, because try as they might there's little which can really be done about those who believe everything is everyone's fault but theirs and teach the same to the kids

So it seems the only realistic route is to make a rounded education available, hope that most will choose to engage with it, and sanction those who disrupt things for others qwhether their parents agree or not

When you went round the school before your child attended did you not see the glass box then?

I really agree with this. When it's clear isolation is no deterrent then other things should be looked at.
With regards with the audience absolutely agree. My youngest DS's class who is top set and often given advanced work, is disrupted by very bright kids, from stable families and who were not a pick of bother in primary (I've known the kids since they were all at nursery and many of the parents I went to school with)

My DS will say these kids just do it to get a laugh, but it is repeatedly so although he like these kids, he is really frustrated at being told the same things over and over cos the teachers just stop and start again and they have projects and experiments he's been looking forward to, cancelled last minute (which isn't great as he has ASD and one of the things that can make him have mind shutdown is last minute changes)

Plus they don't do it for every teacher, they're selective about who they think they can get take advantage if so there isn't underlying issues, simply selective bad behaviour.

@Cactusdaff maybe they've done it that way to protect staff and children? Some teens are huge and can easily overpower smaller adults. Some will claim they've been abused. Equally, there will be cases where the staff habe physically, mentally and sexually abused children in isolation if others cant see whats going on.I guess it's harder to do those things if everyone can see.
It's far from ideal, but I can also see why it's used.

I doubt the kids actually feel humiliated, the kind of kids who would find it truly humiliating are precisely the kind of kids who would do their best to not be in there in the first place

Exactly, @Noicant - just as the sort of parent who schools want to address behaviour with are rarely the ones to be seen at parents' evenings, etc.

As I suggested we can't force people to engage, but we really should be able to ensure others get an education which isn't disrupted by that lack of engagement

Your school could very easily solve that problem by not giving detentions for things that have absolutely no impact whatsoever on anyone’s learning, behaviour or wellbeing…

Absolutely awful. It’s like putting them in the corner facing the wall with a dunces cap so everyone can point any laugh.
Anyone saying ‘oh well they should behave then’ This comment is extremely ignorant and lets me know your child doesn’t go to a strict / very punitive secondary school. If only it were that simple.
You are assuming that the child in there has done something wrong. this IME is not always the case. My son this week had his whole lunch taken from him because another boy tripped him up by sticking his foot out. My son knocked into another student because he got tripped. Never once been in any trouble before but still got punished all the same because he was ‘involved’ He told the head of year what happened but it made no difference.
Speaking to the head of year for my 12 year old is like speaking to Mrs trunchbull. He’s terrified.
My other son had been distracted lots of times by other students nudging / whispering / taking his book, knocking his own onto the floor. Teacher has punished my son for picking up the pen, mouthing suuush or shaking his head no as he doesn’t want to be distracted. In no world would my son speak up to the teacher to correct them as this is seen as answering back and you get a much worse punishment.
In this case my son could have been put in this glass box. (Thankfully they don’t have that at his school)
Its not as simple as previous posters are making out.

They are really strict with the look of the boys, no tight hair cuts or long, no facial hair etc so a lot of the detentions are for things like this.

They are a really strict school, most the teachers are great but the vice principal talks like shit to

I just think it's not one size fits all. I have three boys and I've parented them all differently as in they get different consequences as one punishment for one child won't always work for another.

I'll never agree with putting them in a glass box on display. It's humiliating and demeaning.

Obviously the majority of people commenting on this thread agree with it. Anyone I've spoken to about it outside of Mumsnet agrees with me so 🤷‍♀️

I'm gone now, I don't normally get a lot of responses on my threads I put up and don't actually have time to come in and out of it so much!

No child should EVER be deliberately and purposefully humiliated no matter what they’ve done or how much they are a ‘little shit’
What’s the matter with you?

I went to a local primary school that all my kids went to aswell. It was actually a nice school but I had a horrible teacher for last two years of school.

There was about 5 of us in the class who maybe weren't as academic as the others, in my case I wouldn't have always had my homework done. My mum was a single mother and worked long hours and I'd tell her I had it done but wouldn't always. Anyway this teacher, rather than encourage us, called us 'the blobs' and put us ina. Row at the back of class. It was so humiliating and something I carried on through my schooling. I had really poor self esteem when it came to education. One day I got moved beside one of the academic girls and I flourished, I was doing really well and making more effort then I got moved back one day for talking during class and stayed there then.

Even when I was doing my degree as an adult had to keep reminding myself that I was doing well and I'm not one of the rejects at the back of the class anymore.

This humiliation doesn't work. Maybe it works for some kids but it doesn't with most

This sounds exactly like my son's school.
Exactly the same. It all filters down from the vice principal.constant punishments for menial things. They lose power then and have no meaning.

In my secondary school (which is actually the girls school affiliated with with sons school) you only got suspended if you didn't something very serious. It's not the case in this school.

This is, um, fairly wild hyperbole and not really addressing the original point. OP was pretty clear that it's used for all sorts of misbehaviour, including one-off misdemeanors etc so what you're saying is finding an extreme exception to shoehorn in a justification.

If they need to have a safe space for staff to be safe from extremely violent children then I'd argue that in a publicly accessible place where staff and students can walk past is even more inappropriate.

Similarly, protection against allegations of abuse does not justify humiliating and shaming any other children. Use cameras, have chaperones, have a real hard look at your safeguarding policies - loads of other avenues to employ here.

So how many times would a parent need to buy a new school jacket? (at least £60 each) and if the pupil sees this as a way to either avoid wearing the uniform or because some schools bar pupils who aren't in complete uniform , to get a few extra days off until the jacket is replaced ?

I spent most my secondary school days in isolation mine was t glass it was a room with small decks with large sides so you couldn’t see the person next to you it’s not any huge disaster there was still lunch time you could talk just had to stay in the room and I actually had some of my funniest school moments in there. It was boring sometimes but they needed to punish the behaviours I set off fire alarm brought alcohol in and otherr things a detention wouldn’t cover and suspension would have just made me play with out of school friends.
min year 11 my brain worked and I managed to get a a* in English c in maths and 5 other gcse in a-c only one I failed was statistics where I got a U 😂 I didn’t even know that was possible till I got it. I’m looking at fifnish my degree with a first in may as long as my disitation is up to a good standard.

isolation did no lasting damage but some funny memories and saved me from being suspended

I was caught playing cards in the girls’ cloakroom instead of partaking in some healthy fresh air one break-time in 1974.

my punishment was to sit in the ‘naughty chair’ in the school hall at lunchtime, which was the hub leading to all classrooms, gym, etc and used by everyone. I was mortified and didn’t put a foot wrong for the next 50 years

Not sure I described that right, if they were their own jacket (not school one) own jacket gets hung on fence. Parents are aware so they don't allow them wear own jacket and the kids that sneak them risk their jackets beings robbed

If they need to have a safe space for staff to be safe from extremely violent children then I'd argue that in a publicly accessible place where staff and students can walk past is even more inappropriate.Similarly, protection against allegations of abuse does not justify humiliating and shaming any other children. Use cameras, have chaperones, have a real hard look at your safeguarding policies - loads of other avenues to employ here.

It's not publicly accessible is it? Or are you just worried about the humiliation for the violent child having witnesses to their assaults?

And cameras and extra staff to chaperone? Where's that money coming from?

The school takes the jacket off the child and hangs it on the fence at risk of it being stolen? And this is an actual school policy? And parents don’t complain about the school literally appropriating their children’s property…?

And this is all done for something that (I’ll say it again) does not affect anyone’s learning in any way?