That puberty blockers should not be promoted for children by any charities or celebrities for children.

[WandaWomblesaurus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68549091.amp

https://archive.ph/hmIvY

Loads of news today about the NHS stopping puberty blockers being given to children who think they are trans. Puberty blockers are sometimes prescribed for children who have precocious puberty, however a narrative that has been pushed by Mermaids, Stonewall and celebrities like India Willoughby and Emma Watson (who gave a large donation to Mermaids) - that puberty blockers are safe and "lifesaving"

WPATH guidelines in the USA which the UK NHS have followed in procedure have had leaked documents and videos showing that they knew that children didn't have the ability to understand the long term effects.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/09/disturbing-leaks-from-us-gender-group-wpath-ring-alarm-bells-in-nhs

https://archive.ph/h0BtF

And a new Finnish Study debunks the idea that children who say they are trans are more suicidal https://archive.ph/h0BtF

However Mermaids, Stonewall and India Willoughby are pushing puberty blockers as safe.

https://x.com/stonewalluk/status/1767603259932361036?s=

https://www.tiktok.com/@mermaidsgenderr*/photo/7345520902936726816?isfrommwebapp=1&senderdevice=mobile&senderrweb_id=7345629783211378209

https://x.com/indiawilloughby/status/1767595379921404151?s=46

AIBU to think that anyone pushing puberty blockers at this point is unethical? And that they should never have been allowed to be given to children who did not need them for precocious puberty where the risks are weighed up against the side effects and they are only used short term?

Yes this is where we are. It’s abusive because children have no choice but to trust adults pushing it

I would love to see some actual financial or other ramifications to this

"It's about a personal decision made with all the information available and with the support of people with better knowledge than me."

yes. We get it.

You haven't done the reading, so you don't seem to have grasped the issues in getting patients the accurate and indepth information that they need to make the decision. And you don't seem to understand that this is about children and what they can and cannot ethically make an informed decision on.

Worth too keeping in mind.

For PBs to be easily, quickly available to children has been the preferred path of a very rich, powerful, influential lobby that the establishment is very scared to upset.

Their influence has been huge, wide ranging, including being allowed to freely misrepresent the law and teach children that drugs are safe and reversible long after the evidence was clear that this was not true.

If there was evidence that made this path the right one for children this lobby would have made sure it was very widely known and represented, including in the several court cases where it was relevant. Instead, the lobby have been extremely reluctant and wanted to avoid and prevent research or evidence being collated.

The NHS has not reached this decision quickly or willingly, and will have had the lobby trying to drag them back every inch of the way. They will have been under intense political pressure.

That they are now making this unequivocal decision suggests to me that the Cass report holds information that made not acting even worse than the political outcomes of acting.

Exactly

Firstly, we do not know the long term effects of puberty blockers on these children. Because that research work has not been done. As the Cass report indicated, even basic follow ups with patients have been neglected. I wonder why?

Secondly, we are asking children to consider things they cannot possibly understand let alone consent to. Their future sex lives, their fertility - that's just the basics.

The WPATH leak makes it totally clear that the doctors advocating these treatments knew perfectly well that children didn't understand the ramifications. But they ploughed in ahead regardless.

So yes, do the reading and inform yourself. Wake up basically, because these are vulnerable children we are talking about and it is incumbent on all of us to understand what is going on.

The NHS has not reached this decision quickly or willingly, and will have had the lobby trying to drag them back every inch of the way. They will have been under intense political pressure.

That they are now making this unequivocal decision suggests to me that the Cass report holds information that made not acting even worse than the political outcomes of acting.

Quite. The Cass report will be some reading, I'm sure.

@newyorker74 I don’t understand your position. You are saying leave it to the experts and the patient.
The experts are saying ‘No, too dangerous, not enough benefit to take the risk ‘

The patients are children- before puberty- so unable to understand the risks. They do not have sex drives, haven’t orgasmed and don’t know what they are giving up. And they never will.

Most kids think sex is yucky and babies smell. Adults tend to disagree.

Kids can’t choose a lifelong disability.

Whose interests can it possibly benefit to prevent children growing up properly?

I am flinging likes out left right and centre on this thread! 👏

Is David Bell enough of an expert for you?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001x4l9

From around 06.30

Dr Bell is an ex governor of the Tavistock and Portman.

Leave the experts to expert is my general rule.

Is this trite and extremely childish expression supposed to indicate that there's no need for you to inform yourself in any way at all about things that you support because you airily assume that the likes of WPATH are ethical and doing a super job so it's probably all fine?

Nottingham Trans Health centre still links to WPATH's SoC version 8, the one with the references to The Eunuch Archive.

This is the document (the SoC 8) that led NHS Scotland to report to Police Scotland for 'images of child sex abuse' after they hosted it on their website.

https://ncth.nhs.uk/other-gp-guidance/

@newyorker74 This is a medical scandal to rival thalidomide.

I'm not going to out myself but I actually am more than competent to assess research studies, hence my comment above. I normally support the NHS but I am utterly ashamed of the way they have behaved over this. They have finally stopped caving in to pressure groups, too late for many damaged young people.

If you dont feel able to make a decision on this yourself that's fair enough - but if I felt like that I wouldnt say anything. Celebrities who support this generally dont have the knowledge to take a decision either.

We dont support young people in any other form of self harm, that's what puberty blockers are.

This is a medical scandal to rival thalidomide.

Yes gender ideology as a whole is

I cannot wait until exposure phase kicks in properly

Your monthly injection is only available because studies have shown that there is a potential benefit. Your doctor advised you that the benefits outweigh the risks in your specific situation, presumably having discussed different options that all have an evidence base. You will have had some input into the decision making but all based on years of work by scientists that has been distilled into a few bullet points by your doctor and maybe a few Google sites.

This is not at all the same as the use of puberty blockers where the evidence is that they do more harm than good. How can a child possibly know more than a range of experts? Or even, how can a single medical practitioner know more than a range of experts?

Maybe it doesn't sink in what the 'harm' is.

The impacts proven are:

bone density
major ligament and connective tissue damage have been shown to the be long term effects developed by women after treatment for precocious puberty.
IQ has been shown to be lowered
female people go through a sudden and excruciating menopause
pseudotumor cerebri (idiopathic intracranial hypertension) caused the FDA to issue that warning linked above
severe and long term body aches

This is just from the top of my head.

There is a reason that for women with endometriosis it is limited to a very short duration. Why would someone declare they are safe when women with ends are told that their treatment with the same drugs are to be significantly limited? Where is the disconnect here?

Who exactly benefits from children being given such a low standard of care? And who benefits from people being told that someone else knows best so leave it to the experts?

If you say "As I understand it the majority of young people in this situation, if left alone, will realise that they are not trans" then it's not up to me to provide or look for your stats. If you make an assertion, then be able to back it up. First law of the Internet ;)

Not quite true here. My injection has only been licensed for 5 years so, in medical terms, very limited data for what is a life long condition. At least according to my doctor who is the head of his department. However we made a decision to risk against the comparative lack of data because the alternative of using another lesser treatment was detrimental to my quality of life.

Great.

What has your treatment got to do with experts deciding no more puberty blockers for children?

That's not what I'm saying. I am saying that decisions should be made by the individual in conjunction with their doctor and with all the medical facts available. I'm glad you have the knowledge to make an informed decision should it ever be necessary for you or a loved one. I'm saying that society in general deciding - without the level of specific, trained knowledge you have - should not be be making decisions for other people. Also I'm fine with saying I don't have all the answers to most things in life. I think it would be extremely arrogant to say someone can't voice an opinion because they admit they don't have all the answers. Surely the point of life is admitting that and owning it and then learning?

But you, as an adult, have capacity to make an informed decision and give consent to treatment.

This is in no way comparable to an 11 or 12 yr old child being asked to consent to a drug developed for short term use and with unknown consequences when used in a way it was not designed for.

We have guidelines for all sorts of treatment

It will apply here too as people who know more have decided it’s best for children

You say you defer to experts, so there you go it’s been decided by them

Because people are saying that beta blockers have limited data available to prove long term impacts. I was using my examples of regularly taking a drug which also has limited long term impact studies as an example of where risk can be considered and motivated to make the treatment worth doing.

Adults can, with the help of their medical advisors, make informed decisions. Children dont actually develop fully adult brains until around 25. Adults need to protect children from making ill-informed decisions whose consequences they cant fully understand. I say ill informed because they were frequently not given accurate information or time to properly consider. Many had no experience of what they were giving up.

When society knows that children are not being protected society has a duty to step in and make sure they are. That is finally happening.

Society doesn't delegate the responsibility for safeguarding to children. The fact we've allowed a group of adults to target them with the belief that their growing bodies are wrong and that a sex change can fix them is unforgivable.
In the light of all the evidence about this extreme medical experimentation on children, it's worrying to see anyone arguing that these children should be allowed to make decisions about their the removal of their future fertility, sex lives, and damaged physical and mental health.

Safeguarding children means sometimes saying no to those seeking to harm children. That's what NHS England have done - said no. At last.

Ok so you say you’re not an expert

People who are have concluded it’s in the interest of children to stop the usage

Can you see they know more to make the decision?

That's a totally fair comment. I'd be interested to know what the decision making/approval process is for that age of person who accesses beta blockers for other uses - if indeed they are available for any other use. I would hope there is already a process in place for the support of vet young people to make informed decisions.