That puberty blockers should not be promoted for children by any charities or celebrities for children.

[WandaWomblesaurus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68549091.amp

https://archive.ph/hmIvY

Loads of news today about the NHS stopping puberty blockers being given to children who think they are trans. Puberty blockers are sometimes prescribed for children who have precocious puberty, however a narrative that has been pushed by Mermaids, Stonewall and celebrities like India Willoughby and Emma Watson (who gave a large donation to Mermaids) - that puberty blockers are safe and "lifesaving"

WPATH guidelines in the USA which the UK NHS have followed in procedure have had leaked documents and videos showing that they knew that children didn't have the ability to understand the long term effects.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/09/disturbing-leaks-from-us-gender-group-wpath-ring-alarm-bells-in-nhs

https://archive.ph/h0BtF

And a new Finnish Study debunks the idea that children who say they are trans are more suicidal https://archive.ph/h0BtF

However Mermaids, Stonewall and India Willoughby are pushing puberty blockers as safe.

https://x.com/stonewalluk/status/1767603259932361036?s=

https://www.tiktok.com/@mermaidsgenderr*/photo/7345520902936726816?isfrommwebapp=1&senderdevice=mobile&senderrweb_id=7345629783211378209

https://x.com/indiawilloughby/status/1767595379921404151?s=46

AIBU to think that anyone pushing puberty blockers at this point is unethical? And that they should never have been allowed to be given to children who did not need them for precocious puberty where the risks are weighed up against the side effects and they are only used short term?

In the 50s/60s approximately 2000 children in the UK were born with defects from thalidomide. A scandal still discussed today.

When a drug is shown to have serious side effects, it is withdrawn.
There is now evidence that puberty blockers are causing harm. Therefore it shouldn't be prescribed.

Claiming withdrawing is discrimination just because you want it to be a good thing is doing harm to the people you claim to protect.

Should children who are identifying as Trans have access to prompt, qualified counselling? Yes.

www.gendergp.com/unsupported-young-people/#:~:text=Children%20under%20the%20age%20of,responsibility%20can%20consent%20for%20them.

Gender GP

www.gendergp.com/prescribing-puberty-blockers-statement-response-nhs/

Directly influenced by WPATH

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61999764.amp

"A doctor who ran an online clinic for transgender children has been suspended from practising for two months by a medical tribunal.
Dr Helen Webberley put three patients at "unwarranted risk of harm" by failing to provide good clinical care.
The patients, aged 11, 12 and 17, were transitioning from female to male.
The tribunal found her fitness to practise was also impaired by reason of a 2018 conviction for running an unregistered medical agency.
Dr Webberley, from Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, founded the website GenderGP in 2015 as a private online service for transgender care, treating thousands of patients, she said, because of long NHS waiting times.
The tribunal, chaired by Angus Macpherson, found "serious misconduct" for her failure to follow up with 12 and 17-year-olds who had been prescribed testosterone."

Miraculously this woman is allowed to practice again.

Sums up the attitude to "it's only a few" really

Each month at this stage more and more health organisations in different countries are stating clearly that there is very weak evidence coming from study after study. If a country’s health organisations has made statements that puberty blockers are not supported it will make those private clinics open for court cases in some places.

This entire issue was built on shifting sands and should never have got to this position. Saying ‘just a few’ does not make this an issue to be dismissed.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-024-02817-5

Study here from Groningen University Medical Centre saying that questioning your identity is a normal phase during adolescence, but that that most children grow out of, and that wanting to change sex is indicative of other underlying psychological issues.

Sorry, by this I mean that it needs to be publicised very clearly that the NHS should not be prescribing these drugs for this purpose and nor should any other doctors in the UK.

Those children that are the rare exceptions… they are now confirmed experiments. How ethical is that?

YABU. Puberty blockers are are safe, important component of healthcare for trans children.
All children deserve access to health care.

"YABU. Puberty blockers are are safe, important component of healthcare for trans children."
"All children deserve access to health care."

Please provide the evidence that puberty blockers are 'safe'? How are they 'safe'?

Considering even the WHO did a very quick u-turn in January to state that there is too low an evidence base that they improve children's lives, I am very eager to see your evidence tandora. I don't believe you have posted convincing evidence previously. Maybe you will have more now.

Oh... hang on. A German team a couple of weeks ago stated, yet again, that there is no new evidence and they agreed with the previous reviews that the evidence based is too low for the confident conclusions we normally see.

How in any world is the same drugs historically used to castrate gays and peadophiles completely safe when given to children?

If they are 'safe' then how do they stop puberty, a completely natural process that all people lucky enough to survive to adulthood go through?

Let's wait and see if this poster finally posts the evidence that is robust and details what they state.

Considering the known bone density issue. And the fact that across different countries now, the narrative of 'a pause' has been robustly dispelled. And that Lupron is known very well now for a wide range of issues decades after treatment. I very much look forward to it.

I agree with this completely.

"Every single child who was truly blocked at Tanner stage 2 (9 - 11 years old) has never experienced orgasm."

— Marci Bowers
trans-identified male
President of WPATH

Here is evidence just for the bone density issue alone.

Bone density issues caused by GnRH

Bone Health in the Transgender Population
Published online 2019 Jul 2.

Micol S. Rothman and Sean J. Iwamoto

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6709704/

This

Also unknown are the long-term effects of puberty blockade, the effect of changes in body composition and the optimal type, timing, dosage, and route of administration of GAHT for bone outcomes.

Conclusion
The results of the studies that reported impact on the critical outcomes of gender dysphoria and mental health (depression, anger and anxiety), and the important outcomes of body image and psychosocial impact (global and psychosocial functioning), in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria are of very low certainty using modified GRADE. They suggest little change with GnRH analogues from baseline to follow-up.

And

GnRH analogues are frequently employed to provide puberty blockade in adolescents with gender incongruence or gender dysphoria. From their use in other medical conditions such as prostate cancer, their deleterious effects on the bone are well known, although these have the potential to be reversible if treatments are stopped or add back therapies can be given

And

However, Z-scores in the trans boys also showed an expected drop during GnRHa treatment. Similarly, they did not fully make up their bone loss as Z-scores at age 22 were still lower than baseline

Meaning, the authors acknowledge little is known about the lasting effects of puberty blockers. In this study, they propose some positive effect from cross sex hormones for females but ths results show that it doesn’t really make up the loss from puberty blockers.

PLUS

Just adding this piece about bone density for young transitioners here:

segm.org/the_effect_of_puberty_blockers_on_the_accrual_of_bone_mass

1st May 2021

Dr Michael Biggs (an advisor to SEGM) has been calling for the release of data from the Tavistock’s experiment since 2019. A subset of the data were finally released following the judicial review into puberty suppression at the Tavistock clinic. Biggs’ reanalysis has just been published in the Journal of Paediatric Endocrinology and Metabolism. It finds that after two years on GnRHa, the Z-scores for a significant minority of the children had declined to a level that should trigger clinical concern.

PLUS

www.svtplay.se/video/33358590/uppdrag-granskning/mission-investigate-trans-children-avsnitt-1

The latest from Sweden on the effects of puberty blockers on Leo and others.

As the poster who posted this initially states:

A trans child, Leo was treated for puberty blockers for 4 years. Leo ended up with osteoporosis (significantly below any normal bone density interval), fractures in the back, constant pain and worse mental state.

The journalist also found an additional 12 cases in Stockholm only where children had serious side effects (bone fractures, deep regret from voice changes, injuries, deteriorating mental health and significant weight gains). Leo’s case was not reported and not one of these.

I cannot understand how ANYONE is supportive of this. How can a child of this age comprehend what they are signing up to?

They absolutely can't and anyone suggesting they can is being grossly dishonest.

This is abuse. Plain and simple.

It is very hard to argue that there is anywhere near enough evidence that using puberty blockers as a treatment option is 'safe' or even 'understood' by those giving consent for children to be using them after this report was released last week.

If any readers wish to believe some posters who try to dismiss the harms with 'puberty blockers are safe', please continue to ask those posters to post links to the evidence. And if you don't get the links and just more empty assurances, you need to ask yourself why that is.

Here is one place to start to start to think about how empty those assurances of 'they are safe' really are. The recent WPATH leak. The clinicians directly working with these children and vulnerable people know that there are massive issues and ethical issues at that too.

Here is one link to the WPATH pdf
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56a45d683b0be33df885def6/t/65e64b9e5cbd756da9fbbdfa/1709591479160/Final+WPATH+Report.pdf

and another
https://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/wpath-files

Here are some of the reactions:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13156695/Trans-healthcare-doctors-exposed-admitting-patients-young-mentally-ill-understand-consequences-treatment.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/05/wpath-tansgender-hormone-therapy-cancer-links-leaked-emails/

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/wpath-the-truth-about-gender-affirming-healthcare/

https://genspect.org/the-wpath-files-revealed/

There are now podcasts and interviews as well.

Here is a summary from Michael Shellenberger.
https://x.com/shellenberger/status/1764800595473686865?s=20

And the first part. Much more of it requires images.

Here is the threadreader version:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1764799914918490287.html

THE WPATH FILES

Advocates of gender-affirming care say it’s evidence-based.

But now, newly released internal files from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) prove that the practice of transgender medicine is neither scientific nor medical.

American Medical Association, The Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and thousands of doctors worldwide rely on WPATH. It is considered the leading global authority on gender medicine.

And yet WPATH’s internal files, which include written discussions and a video, reveal that its members know they are creating victims and not getting “informed consent.”

Victims include a 10-year-old girl, a 13-year-old developmentally delayed adolescent, and individuals suffering from schizophrenia and other serious mental illnesses.

The injuries described in the WPATH Files include sterilization, loss of sexual function, liver tumors, and death.

WPATH members indicate repeatedly that they know that many children and their parents don’t understand the effects that puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries will have on their bodies. And yet, they continue to perform and advocate for gender medicine.

The WPATH Files prove that gender medicine is comprised of unregulated and pseudoscientific experiments on children, adolescents, and vulnerable adults. It will go down as one of the worst medical scandals in history.

Why I Am Publishing WPATH Files And How I Got Them

The written WPATH Files come from WPATH’s member discussion forum, which runs on software provided by DocMatter.

Ninety seconds of the 82-minute video was made public last year. We are making the full video available for the first time.

One or more people gave me the WPATH Files, and my colleagues and I attempted to summarize them as a series of articles. We quickly realized the topic was too sensitive, complex, and large to be dealt with as a work of journalism, and we moved the project to the research institute I founded seven years ago, Environmental Progress (EP).

The Files are authentic. We redacted most names and left only those individuals who are leading gender medicine practitioners to whom we sent “right-of-reply” emails. We know WPATH members discussed our emails internally. No WPATH leader or member has denied that the Files are anything other than what they appear to be.

EP is publishing a 70-page report to provide context for the 170 pages of WPATH Files. Mia Hughes is the author of the report. It and accompanying summary materials can be downloaded at the link below. That link also provides a link to the full WPATH video.

Me three.

How anyone can not only condone but actively promote this abuse of children is unbelievable, it is criminal.

The NHS document, published yesterday:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/publication/clinical-policy-puberty-suppressing-hormones/

Thank god they've finally woken up to this.

My heart breaks for any children who've been harmed by this unethical, unevidenced treatment based on an ideology that makes no sense.

Nobody is 'born in the wrong body'. Anyone who is distressed by their body needs help, support, and ethical, evidenced care.

Do no harm.

Very pleased to see this thread in AIBU. All parents need to be aware of the dangers being pushed at children.

Effectively we have mentally vulnerable children believing that their developing bodies are flawed and need fixing. The NHS has been dishing out puberty blockers to start changing these healthy bodies rather than addressing the mental challenges that these children have.

As a pp has said, this is a massive scandal - especially as those children reach adulthood and finally understand that when children they "consented" to sacrifice their fertility, their future sexual relationships and have become medical patients for life.

We have lost our collective minds in allowing this extreme level of child abuse.

Yes. It's too late for a family member of mine who will now never have children and has multiple health issues thanks to puberty blockers and now cross sex hormones.

Here are some of the world's health agencies who have declared that rather than the ignorant 'puberty blockers are safe', that these drugs show very low evidence of improvement.

the NICE finding

arms.nice.org.uk/resources/hub/1070905/attachment

The summary of the conclusion is

Conclusion
The results of the studies that reported impact on the critical outcomes of gender dysphoria and mental health (depression, anger and anxiety), and the important outcomes of body image and psychosocial impact (global and psychosocial functioning), in children and adolescents with gender dysphoria are of very low certainty using modified GRADE. They suggest little change with GnRH analogues from baseline to follow-up.

This is a report on The Swedish changes - based on lack of evidence.

genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

(People should seek original source from Sweden if they are going to dismiss this article. Fight the contents of the article, don't fucking just dismiss the publisher).

Australia and NZ College of Psychiatrists publish a warning there is not enough evidence.

//www.ranzcp.org/news-policy/policy-and-advocacy/position-statements/gender-dysphoria

The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists have now updated their guidance.

They are now warning that there is NOT ENOUGH evidence to recommend affirming only treatments or indeed any particular treatment plan. They now say that underlying health issues should be treated at the same time. And warn that medicalisation of children and teens be very careful and thoroughly explored considering the ‘paucity’ of evidence at this time.

France - declares there is not enough evidence.

The latest from National Academy of Medicine, France. They have issued a press release about treatment for gender disphoria in children and adolescents.

SEGM have translated it, but also linked up the original version.

segm.org/France-cautions-regarding-puberty-blockers-and-cross-sex-hormones-for-youth

Extract

Transgender identity is a feeling of identifying as a gender different from that assigned at birth, which is persistent and lasts more than 6 months. This experience can cause significant and prolonged distress, which can contribute to an increased risk of suicide [a].

No genetic predisposition has been found.

While this condition has been long recognized, a sharp increase in demand for medical interventions has been observed (1,2) first in North America, then in Northern Europe, and, more recently, in France, particularly among children and adolescents. A recent study of a number of high schools in Pittsburgh revealed a prevalence that is clearly higher than previously estimated in the United States (3): 10% of students declared themselves to be transgender or non-binary or were unsure of their gender [b]. In 2003, the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne diagnosed only one child with gender dysphoria, whereas today it treats nearly 200.

Whatever the mechanisms involved in adolescents - excessive engagement with social media, greater social acceptability, or influence by those in one’s social circle - this epidemic-like phenomenon manifests itself in the emergence of cases or even clusters of cases in the adolescents’ immediate surroundings (4). This primarily social problem is due, in part, to the questioning of an overly dichotomous view of gender identity by some young people.

The demand for medical interventions, due to the distress that this condition (which is not a mental illness per se) causes, leads to a growing supply of care in the form of consultations or care in specialized clinics. This involves many pediatric subspecialties. The psychiatric consultations are utilized first, and if the identity is authentic and the discomfort persists, endocrinology, gynecology and, ultimately, surgery become involved.

However, great medical caution must be taken in children and adolescents, given the vulnerability, particularly psychological, of this population and the many undesirable effects and even serious complications that can be caused by some of the therapies available. In this regard, it is important to recall the recent decision (May 2021) of the Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm to prohibit the use of puberty blockers.

If France allows the use of puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones with parental authorization and no age limitations, the greatest caution is needed in their use, taking into account the side-effects such as the impact on growth, bone weakening, risk of sterility, emotional and intellectual consequences and, for girls, menopause-like symptoms.

UK The Cass Review Interim Report - stating there is not enough evidence!

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Bookmarked.pdf

Here is an article on the the World Health Organisation's flip flop. WHO clarifies that “gender-affirmative care” is not supported by evidence in children and adolescents.

https://segm.org/WHO-TGD-Guideline-Concerns-2024

So, come on all those declaring these drugs are 'safe'. Please show the world your evidence that these countries have not had access to.

Let's not forget the FDA in the USA issued this warning:

New FDA warning for PBs:

publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/20636/Risk-of-pseudotumor-cerebri-added-to-labeling-for?autologincheck=redirected

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has added a warning about the risk of pseudotumor cerebri (idiopathic intracranial hypertension) to the labeling for gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonists that are approved for the treatment of central precocious puberty in pediatric patients. These products include Lupron Depot-Ped (leuprolide acetate), Fensolvi (leuprolide acetate), Synarel (nafarelin), Supprelin LA (histrelin) and Triptodur (triptorelin).

The new warning includes recommendations to monitor patients taking GnRH agonists for signs and symptoms of pseudotumor cerebri, including headache, papilledema, blurred or loss of vision, diplopia, pain behind the eye or pain with eye movement, tinnitus, dizziness and nausea.

And

Six cases were identified that supported a plausible association between GnRH agonist use and pseudotumor cerebri. All six cases were reported in birth-assigned females ages 5 to 12 years. Five were undergoing treatment for central precocious puberty and one for transgender care. The onset of pseudotumor cerebri symptoms ranged from three to 240 days after GnRH agonist initiation.

However, I suspect that those declaring that these drugs are 'safe' considered this just a risk worth taking.... I mean, we see that regularly stated by some posters. One of who has posted on this thread. That the risk is 'worth it'. Yet, what we are also now very aware of is those clinicians in WPATH joking about how even parents who are giving consent don't understand what they are consenting to and just agree to the treatment.

But.. yeah... they are 'safe' apparently.

So, come on all those declaring these drugs are 'safe'. Please show the world your evidence that these countries have not had access to.

Yes, come on all you puberty blockers are perfectly safe and reversible mantra chanters let's see concrete, peer reviewed evidence supporting that, not emotional whinges, actual cold, hard facts.

I hope that they sue

Yes.

yanbu op