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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That puberty blockers should not be promoted for children by any charities or celebrities for children.

282 replies

WandaWomblesaurus · 13/03/2024 00:04

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68549091.amp

https://archive.ph/hmIvY

Loads of news today about the NHS stopping puberty blockers being given to children who think they are trans. Puberty blockers are sometimes prescribed for children who have precocious puberty, however a narrative that has been pushed by Mermaids, Stonewall and celebrities like India Willoughby and Emma Watson (who gave a large donation to Mermaids) - that puberty blockers are safe and "lifesaving"

WPATH guidelines in the USA which the UK NHS have followed in procedure have had leaked documents and videos showing that they knew that children didn't have the ability to understand the long term effects.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/09/disturbing-leaks-from-us-gender-group-wpath-ring-alarm-bells-in-nhs

https://archive.ph/h0BtF

And a new Finnish Study debunks the idea that children who say they are trans are more suicidal https://archive.ph/h0BtF

However Mermaids, Stonewall and India Willoughby are pushing puberty blockers as safe.

https://x.com/stonewalluk/status/1767603259932361036?s=

https://www.tiktok.com/@mermaidsgenderr*/photo/7345520902936726816?isfrommwebapp=1&senderdevice=mobile&senderrweb_id=7345629783211378209

https://x.com/indiawilloughby/status/1767595379921404151?s=46

AIBU to think that anyone pushing puberty blockers at this point is unethical? And that they should never have been allowed to be given to children who did not need them for precocious puberty where the risks are weighed up against the side effects and they are only used short term?

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Thread gallery
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WandaWomblesaurus · 16/03/2024 13:10

archive.ph/iR27y

Janice Turner in The Times - "Leaks from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, the body which formulates guidance on “trans healthcare”, reveal doctors perplexed at how they should explain to an 11-year-old child that drugs will render them infertile. Crucially, liberal media such as The New York Times are now reporting grave medical misgivings about child transition, once dismissed as a culture-war issue for the Republican right.
Yet the question remains: how was this ever allowed to happen? For years, puberty blockers were cheerily billed as a mere “pause button”. In 2014, <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/iR27y/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tavistock-staff-take-key-roles-in-new-regional-gender-centres-03b0qqs50" rel="nofollow" target="blank">Dr Polly Carmichaell, the last head of Gids before the Cass review ordered its closure, went on CBBC in a show called I Am Leo, saying of blockers: “The good thing is, if you stop the injections, it’s like pressing ‘start’ and the body carries on developing as it would if you hadn’t started.”
The BBC permitted her to make this unevidenced claim to an impressionable audience of six to 12-year-olds. Imagine hearing this as a developing girl, freaked out by your new breasts and periods. No wonder Gids referrals subsequently rocketed.
Carmichael failed to mention that she did not know if pressing “restart” on puberty is always medically possible — it is not — and in fact, almost every child Gids put on blockers went on to irreversible cross-sex hormones.
After years in a Peter Pan state while their peers developed, they understandably felt there was no way back and forged on with treatment. Yet if allowed to experience natural puberty, almost 85 per cent of gender dysphoria cases resolve themselves."

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WandaWomblesaurus · 17/03/2024 04:42
OP posts:
WandaWomblesaurus · 17/03/2024 04:44
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WandaWomblesaurus · 18/03/2024 09:07

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/da0f8e48-a241-4baf-9224-a77b02c580b6?shareToken=41c4303889699d9af0b26aac8682b9e9

Puberty blocker clinic accepted £20k donation from ‘sugar daddy’
GenderGP, which privately prescribes hormone drugs to children, can skip the NHS ban on the drugs because it is private

Dr Helen Webberley said GenderGP would not be following NHS guidelines banning the prescription of puberty blockers

ADRIAN SHERRATT FOR THE TIMES
Tom Ball
Sunday March 17 2024, 11.00pm, The Times

A private clinic that has vowed to defy an NHS directive banning the prescription of puberty blockers to children accepted a £20,000 donation from a “sugar daddy” who paid a male YouTuber thousands of pounds to behave like a submissive girl.
GenderGP, which is run by Dr Helen Webberley, a GP from south Wales, has provided children as young as nine with drugs that suppress puberty hormones following online consultations.
Webberley said that her company would not be following NHS guidelines issued last Tuesday banning the prescription of puberty blockers,,_ after medical leaders concluded that “there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness” of the drugs.

A loophole in the guideliness_ mean puberty blockers can still be issued by private providers. Campaigners have warned that children and parents could migrate from the NHS to online clinics running a “Wild West operation”.
As a private company, GenderGP is financed through fees paid by the families of children wishing to change their gender and does not receive charitable donations or public funding. However, the clinic does accept donations for a fund it set up to help those who are struggling to pay for their treatment.
Among those who have given money to the fund is an anonymous American donor who gave $25,000 (£20,000) as part of a joint donation with a British YouTuber whom he paid to be his online “sugar baby”, The Times can reveal.
The donor, who goes by the pseudonym Tenmuses, gave F1nn5ter, a YouTuber from Birmingham with over half a million subscribers, thousands of pounds to undergo laser hair removal, wear an outfit with the words “Daddy’s princess” written on it and sit in a child’s chair when he disobeyed his commands.
Tenmuses also offered him money to strip on camera and undergo breast implant surgery, both of which he declined.
F1nn5ter, whose real name is Jude Howarth, 23, initially grew an online following by making videos about computer games. He began wearing female clothing after telling his followers he would do so if he received $1,000 (£800) in donations from them
Having previously described himself as a cross-dressing man, he announced this month that he had started taking feminising hormone therapy and now uses both he and she pronouns.
According to Howarth, his anonymous benefactor is a wealthy American businessman in his forties who had previously worked as a doctor.
Neither the clinic nor Howarth responded to requests for comment.
The Singapore-based GenderGP was set up in 2015 by Webberley, 54 and her husband Michael, 57.
Mr Webberley was struck off in May 2022 after a tribunal ruled that he had been reckless in wrongly prescribing puberty blockers to a transgender nine-year-old child through Gender GP after a ten-minute consultation on Skype.
In the same year, Mrs Webberley was issued with a two-month suspension by the tribunal service for serious misconduct.
She was accused of failing to alert one of her teenage patients to the impact of puberty blockers on fertility. However a High Court judge later quashed the ruling, leaving her free to continue practising.
Puberty blockers suppress the release of sex hormones that cause physical changes such as breast development or the growth of facial hair. They have been prescribed to hundreds of under-16s on the NHS since 2011 at the gender identity clinic run by the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust in north London.
A review of the Tavistock clinic in 2022 by Dr Hilary Cass warned that puberty blockers may “permanently disrupt” brain development and “lock in” children to an irreversible, life-altering path of cross-sex hormone treatment.
A private member’s bill has been put forward by Liz Truss,,_ the former prime minister, which would make it illegal for any healthcare provider — whether NHS or private, in any part of the UK — to prescribe puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones to children."

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/03/2024 09:35

WtACTUALf.

ArabellaScott · 18/03/2024 09:50

See, I'm not even surprised.

For anyone who is surprised, you've not been paying attention.

EasternStandard · 18/03/2024 09:52

The people who created the GRA law which underpins this forgot what extremes some males will go to

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/03/2024 10:01

See, I'm not even surprised.

For anyone who is surprised, you've not been paying attention.

This.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/03/2024 10:04

Webberley ought to be in prison.

Helleofabore · 18/03/2024 10:09

I don’t suggest anyone search for sissy hypno porn or transmaxxing.

But yes, anyone who is surprised by the paraphilia element that ends up being exposed so often hasn’t been paying attention. Or they just believed women were being hateful when discussing the very clear sexual motivation underlying male transition. Or they believe the constant refrain about most vulnerable and marginalised without looking at who this refers to and why.

But remember, discussing the connection between gender identities and paraphilias is also considered hateful despite there being plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Helleofabore · 18/03/2024 10:10

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/03/2024 10:04

Webberley ought to be in prison.

Both of them.

WandaWomblesaurus · 18/03/2024 10:22

I'm surprised public outrage hasn't put WPath and puberty blockers on the cover of every paper in the country.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/03/2024 10:32

There was a recent C4 documentary about transmaxxing. It's a documented phenomenon.

WandaWomblesaurus · 18/03/2024 10:37

Oh God, do I even ask? What is transmaxxing?

I've seen various threads on Reddit about "cracking the egg" of younger people and the way that some will ask for a "Daddy" to sponsor their surgeries and hormones.

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HardyCrow · 18/03/2024 12:43

WandaWomblesaurus · 18/03/2024 10:22

I'm surprised public outrage hasn't put WPath and puberty blockers on the cover of every paper in the country.

This. Absolutely this. Most all of the media are too frit to report this scandal.

Helleofabore · 18/03/2024 13:09

A few years ago we had a young bloke visit FWR who thought it would be great fun to shock the women with such discussion. He told us all about it and himself. Very proud he was.

Needless to say, we all (including him) were enlightened by the experience.

And once you have interacted directly with transmaxxers, AGP and furries and other role playing male people on feminist threads, all with gender identities, you realise just how few, or maybe better described as how silent, those who people like to describe as having genuine dysphoria are. There is a very good reason those male people love to discuss what they believe women ‘are’ on Mumsnet. They need attention any way they can get it. Humiliation seems to be a feature for some when they adopt user names that they use across other social media platforms that then direct female people to discover their self published porn.

Once you see it, those posters declaring how mean women are for pointing out the sexual paraphilic connection seem to be rather clearly misinformed. I always feel like telling them to ‘educate’ themselves in the same tone that they are scolding others in. But they won’t. Because they don’t want to understand that perhaps those mantras they repeat are completely fucking false.

CanadaNotAMum · 18/03/2024 15:26

AlisonDonut · 13/03/2024 10:33

If they are 'safe' then how do they stop puberty, a completely natural process that all people lucky enough to survive to adulthood go through?

Menopause is a completely natural process too, but loads of women, problem many of whom are on this thread, will take hormone therapy to delay or slow the process.

YABU

Helleofabore · 18/03/2024 15:29

CanadaNotAMum · 18/03/2024 15:26

Menopause is a completely natural process too, but loads of women, problem many of whom are on this thread, will take hormone therapy to delay or slow the process.

YABU

Not sure just what you are trying to say here. Could you explain your thinking ?

Waitingfordoggo · 18/03/2024 15:39

CanadaNotAMum · 18/03/2024 15:26

Menopause is a completely natural process too, but loads of women, problem many of whom are on this thread, will take hormone therapy to delay or slow the process.

YABU

Yes, menopause is natural but can cause multiple problems including pain, lack of sleep, joint stiffness, mental health disturbances, brain fog, hot flushes, digestive disturbance (and many more). The depletion of oestrogen causes these physical symptoms. HRT can restore oestrogen and therefore treat symptoms. Furthermore, HRT is pretty safe for most menopausal women to take.

In contrast, while puberty can be distressing and a difficult time for adolescents, it does not usually cause pain, joint problems, hot flushes or digestive complaints. If it does, then GPs can discuss with their patient how to treat these symptoms.

HRT for menopausal women carries low risk. Puberty blockers for children and teenagers cannot be said to be low risk.

Besides which, any risks of HRT can be considered by women who can then give informed consent to take the drug. This is not the case for children who cannot give informed consent to losing their fertility or losing bone density.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/03/2024 15:42

And HRT doesn't stop or pause the menopause it just eases symptoms.

So completely different.

Although weirdly many transwomen want our HRT too Confused

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/03/2024 16:11

Waitingfordoggo · 18/03/2024 15:39

Yes, menopause is natural but can cause multiple problems including pain, lack of sleep, joint stiffness, mental health disturbances, brain fog, hot flushes, digestive disturbance (and many more). The depletion of oestrogen causes these physical symptoms. HRT can restore oestrogen and therefore treat symptoms. Furthermore, HRT is pretty safe for most menopausal women to take.

In contrast, while puberty can be distressing and a difficult time for adolescents, it does not usually cause pain, joint problems, hot flushes or digestive complaints. If it does, then GPs can discuss with their patient how to treat these symptoms.

HRT for menopausal women carries low risk. Puberty blockers for children and teenagers cannot be said to be low risk.

Besides which, any risks of HRT can be considered by women who can then give informed consent to take the drug. This is not the case for children who cannot give informed consent to losing their fertility or losing bone density.

Edited

Exactly

I take HRT - it doesn’t “pause” the menopause, it helps manage the symptoms

Helleofabore · 18/03/2024 16:35

If that is what Canadanotamum is referring to, then that seems to be another irrelevant whataboutery attempt. The two are not comparable. Plus yes, there is a significant difference between a woman consenting to taking a hormone supplement to relieve symptoms but not stop the process and a child, who even the WPATH clinicians admit are not likely to understand what they are consenting to, stopping puberty progressing and likely causing them to become a medical patient for life. For, if they are lucky, for 70+ years, if their treatment has not been life shortening as is the case with many female patients on puberty blockers.

But surely a poster would understand the negative side effects by now??? Considering how many countries have stopped their usage and that even the WHO has stated there is little evidence of improvement that so many people choose to misrepresent.

Waitingfordoggo · 18/03/2024 17:20

@CanadaNotAMum, just for the avoidance of doubt: HRT for menopausal women does not delay or stop the menopause happening (if it did, we would likely see women experiencing pregnancies in their 50s, 60s and 70s).

It just treats the symptoms- because these can be difficult to live with and make it difficult for women to work, maintain happy relationships and enjoy a good quality of life.

HardyCrow · 18/03/2024 17:28

CanadaNotAMum · 18/03/2024 15:26

Menopause is a completely natural process too, but loads of women, problem many of whom are on this thread, will take hormone therapy to delay or slow the process.

YABU

Hmm. Which is absolutely not the same thing and also not analogous. Puberty blockers block puberty ( clues in the name). This has many bad and irreversible side effects including osteoporosis and infertility- neither of which a child is able to give informed consent for. Also it is not in any meaningful sense reversible so a child who takes these drugs will never fully develop and will have significant disabilities. Supplemental estrogen for menopause also has side effects but is safe for a majority of women ( those for whom it is not are able to make an informed choice because they are grown ups and because drs tend to be upfront and clear about the risk/ benefits). Also it’s reversible in the sense if you stop taking it you move on into menopause. Plus it has been extensively researched for decades. Not true for pb in teens.

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