Don't complain about the state of the NHS and the lack of jobs in the same breath

[Donteatyellowrain]

One of the biggest issues the NHS faces is the lack of recruitment. So if you want a job, go get a job in the NHS, there are plenty, many of which can be done at entry level.
Sick of people complaining about the NHS but considering themselves above working for it.

The government has made the NHS a shit place to work. If it was more attractive more people would consider joining it. You are putting the blame in the wrong place.

I really haven’t seen many people complain about ‘lack of jobs’ really (irl or online) re entry other than when people talk about being in rural areas.

I'm not blaming! I know full well who is to blame! I'm not claiming to have found the cure to the NHS problems here.

For someone that is annoyed by other people moaning you really have done a lot of moaning on this thread.
Also, imagine if we stretch your argument to all publicly funded services. Should we all be willing to work for any of them. The Armed Forces are always recruiting so do you fancy giving it a go?

I got the exact same perks and more working for a university. Alot of those perks are the same across most of the public sector which in some cases is better run with better working conditions.

My husband is in Private and he gets;

25 days holiday + 8 BH (i.e 33 days)
6 months full pay/6 months half pay sickness
4 months paid maternity, 6 weeks paternity (not as generous as NHS but still not horrible)
Plus last year he got a 15% pay rise to account for inflation
and 20% bonus

So the only thing that's really different is he probably doesn't have as much security (he's been there 5 years and the company seems pretty secure) and his pension is arguably worse.

But the argument with the pension is... we're both in our mid 20s. It's hard to sell a pension as perk when we won't see that money for 50+ years and realistically will pensions even exist by the time we get there?

generous pension- yes but not that generous pay for daily living

33 days AL- after 10 years service

up to 6months half pay and 6 months full pay sick leave- sure, if you take it all in one go. If you have four episodes of sickness in 12 months you are disciplined.

maternity benefits- fairly standard ones actually

job security- sure, but once you reach the top of your pay band, unless you apply for a different job there is no extra pay available. In a lot of roles in the nhs there simply is no progression route. B4 medical secretary? That’s it, you’re at the top of your pay band and then there are almost no B5 admin roles available. B4 Rehab assistant- great, if you want to progress of you go back to university and more debt and training, just to come back in 3 years at B5, which is about £100 more than you were on as a top B4.

On top of all of that- years of training in shit conditions for a clinical job, or stuck in a dead end Admin job with a culture of bullying, budget cuts, inflexibility, being expected to work well above paygrade with little support, being expected to work extra hours on good will and support the service no matter what. It’s no wonder the NHS has a recruitment crisis.

That's incredibly naive. Of course pensions matter and if you don't plan for them then no, they probably won't be there waiting for you. At what point do you think it is worth thinking about your pension. And the 33 days AL is also plus bank holidays so 42 really. So no, I wouldn't say that's even close to being the same actually.

No, but then I have a job and am not sat on my arse complaining there are no jobs out there am I. This arguement works just as well for other public services because they're all a muchness really. All absolutely desperate for staff and all unable to recruit. And yes, I'm fully aware of the bigger issues impacting that, but it is just plain wrong to say that we are living in a society with no jobs.

We both do pay into our pension (And my university pension is 28% employer contribution) but being we're not being naive to that the fact that pensions probably won't exist (and definitely won't exist in their current form) in 50 years time. The pension age is due to go up to 72 (My granddad retired from the NHS on a final salary pension aged 50!), by the time we get there it'll be what 90?

And on the A/L thing that's a start which increases with service. So after 10 years it'll increase to 33 + BH (Same as NHS, I just looked at my trust for starting annual leave... 27 days + BH increasing to 33 after 10 years) so it's the exact same. I'm on a lower grade at the uni but the next grade up starts at 33+ BH from day one. So in that argument the university (which is a private business) is actually better.

I've looked at an NHS job that continues to come up in my area. I'd love to do it. Children's respite carer. But unfortunately I can't apply.
It's shifts including nights and childcare just isn't accessible for the hours needed.

Agree. The lack of recruitment is surely a separate issue to people in general not wanting to apply for a job surely? Not sure why NHS is yourbmain focus.

I think what you haven't noticed OP is that NHS can't keep their staff and the recruitment process is long, so long people have found another job else where!

"Clearly I'm not talking about you am I! I'm not saying that the NHS is not open to criticism, of course it is and I agree that it is not fit for purpose! But a huge contributing factor to this is the inability to recruit and I am sick of people complaining about the lack of jobs and how impossible it is to get a job when there are so so SO many NHS vacancies."

But there aren't for people like me.
There are loads of radiographer jobs, phlebotomist jobs, skilled IT jobs , skilled admin jobs, pharmacy jobs but not for me .
I worked in a bank prior to universal computer usage ( 1980s) I was , latterly , a TA.
Name me a single job that I could do that didn't involve IT skills ( rudimentary) ,medical knowledge ( I have none) sight skills ( poor.) and I'm bloody 60.

@ILoveSalmonSpread 60 is still young. Loads of ward clarks use IT and the computers. Get a family member to show you not even to apply in the NHS. Just for yourself... YouTube is your friend its a modern world! Or go to a library and learn.

"No, but then I have a job and am not sat on my arse complaining there are no jobs out there am I. This arguement works just as well for other public services because they're all a muchness really. All absolutely desperate for staff and all unable to recruit. And yes, I'm fully aware of the bigger issues impacting that, but it is just plain wrong to say that we are living in a society with no jobs."

I can hear what you're saying to an extent.
There was a report recently that suggested that their are around 9 million inactive people of working age.

There has been a huge shift from industry to commercial and there are so very many young people missing from work due to MH reasons.

Now that really concerns me .

That and poor academic achievement due to state school failings.

Edited

Been there and done it, won't do it again.

This isn't true..

This - believe me, my husband and I loved working for nhs initially, felt quite proud to be contributing. However, having regular shifts, backup rota and backup backup rota was madness. Services being completely understaffed so you spend your day apologising to patients while covering two jobs. I literally can’t remember a day in the past few years (before we both left!) that we had full staff for a day! Asking people to cover several jobs/not take annual leave/weekends leads to burn out.

Do you work in health care / NHS though?
They can't recruit people as working in health care is the most hard job to do,
We work the hardest yet get any job satisfaction as it is that hard.
I had a mental breakdown and currently out of work, do I want to go back into the job?
No I do not,
You don't get any better thought of.

Aside from the patronising comment, I have absolutely no desire to ‘learn IT’ at 60.
I can navigate what I need for day to day life and that’s fine.
I just don’t want to have to navigate a new system at 60 and with failing sight for but 10 hours a week.

Just out of interest, what do you deem to be poor pay? I'm just intrigued by this ongoing narrative about poor nhs pay for experienced clinical staff. 5 years post graduating, I was a band 7. Band 7's earn about £50,000 outside London, £57,000 in London as a basic salary, with extra for weekend and night shifts. On top of this it's 8 weeks annual leave and decent pension and maternity pay. I saw an article about 2 experienced nhs nurses (a couple) needing to go to a food bank! On a household income of well over £100,000. Non qualified staff, absolutely I can see that they may struggle on their pay.

The much bigger issue in nhs is the working conditions - managers who aren't fit for their roles and make staff lives much harder, and abuse and lack of respect from patients. 5 of my wider team have left in past year, and for most it was a gradual move into private practice, not for the pay, but for the better working conditions and respect from patients.

Put those working conditions together with the low pay of non qualified staff, and I absolutely get why the nhs struggles to recruit.

Yes I work in healthcare, yes I work in the NHS, have done for 10 years. You're missing the point. I never said this was the sole reason. I'm just pissed off that people try to pretend there are no jobs, there are not "no jobs". There are jobs everywhere. People just don't want to do them for whatever myriad of reasons and that's not the same as saying there are no jobs, that's simply saying there are no jobs you want to do. And not everyone who works for the NHS is utterly miserable all the time. The NHS is one of the biggest employers in the World... Not just the UK, the World!!! And yes it is on its knees, no one is denying that, but that doesn't make them a bad employer. For the amount of people actually employed by them not all of them are miserable, myself for one and many people I work with. We also recognise that actually the situation is not likely to be much better in the private sector which is why we don't leave.
No one is obliged to work for the NHS and my point is not that people should take any job going, but it is an out and out lie that there are not enough jobs for people to access in this country and it is my personal view that if you choose not to consider a job in the NHS when you could apply to work there, you don't get to shit on it for trying to do it's best in impossible circumstances!

Well said! I also get extremely annoyed about the posts here which seem to think anyone who is looking for a job should go into care work, whether they are suitable or not.

OP is "one of those" - who spout nonsense, the majority of posters disagree with them and point out why, but they are still in the right!

My dd tried to get a job in the NHS, has had no luck what so ever.

Either you got it or you haven't, not everyone is cut out of the job.

And you are "one of those" who accused someone of being "one of those" in such a dismissive way. The majority of posters have told me why the NHS is a shit hole to work for and that wasn't the point of my post.

I’d love to work for the NHS, I’d love to retrain but trying to raise a family and study seems impossible.

I'm in another marmite profession. This post has made me think about how I've never, ever considered working in anything vaguely health related. Apart from my horror at the thought of possibly having to touch other people, it's never even been on my radar, even in an admin capacity. If I lost my job, I guess I'd have to work anywhere though.