To be sad DD might be limiting herself

[JanseyB]

I have twins, they are 17, in sixth form.
DD is on paper the more intelligent of the two, 8/9a at GCSE and predicted 2 A* and 2 As at a-level (French, German, Art and English). She is at a good local indie but the careers advisor seems to pay little attention to her (more interested in the Law, Medicine and Finance candidates).

DD has applied for Business/Management and German for uni. She's applied to Kings, UCL, Manchester, Bristol and Queen Mary, she has some offers back.

DD has now announced she wants to take a gap year, then maybe change her course of study all together. She has savings and will get some money for her 18th so she has said she wants to work and travel and figure it out.
DD actually wants to work in marketing but wants to do a degree related to foreign language as it's something she is naturally talented at.

DS is so much more put together, studying history then wants to do law and has a clear plan.

DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters. Which just seems a bit chaotic.

She is so smart, I wasn't massively supportive of her A-level choices and I feel like we are going through it again. She got a bloody 9 in maths at GCSE and it feels such a waste to throw it away. She's also very sociable, likeable, sporty and works so hard, it just seems she's a bit lost?!

DH and I are both doctors, our path was quite clear and laid out from leaving school so I'm not sure how to approach this.

AIBU thinking she might be throwing it all away. How can I get her better careers advice when school aren't helping? She used to want to work in finance and I'm a little sad that over the last 2 years that has lost appeal to her!

Anyone here know a path that might suit DD, with her want of modern languages under grad and marking as a career with study abroad and gap years?

Sorry, but from experience you have to let them choose their own path.
DD v clever - got all 7-9 in GCSEs. . All As in academic -based A levels but chose a creative pathway after starting a more academic degree and dropping out as ‘just because I like X subject I don’t want to study it’. I know she will struggle with getting work as although she has some talent, so do loads of others in a v competitive area. But it’s the right thing for her mental health to go down this path at the moment. Maybe she will be successful, maybe she’ll regret it, but it will have been her choice.

Far better to take a gap year than make a mistake.

DS had been set to go in to the air force and they were very keen, he was in air cadets and had been in some meetings and was going to go funded degree route as a trainee officer. But he changed his mind.

He ended up working for almost two years and is now doing a Degree apprenticeship. He is very happy and fulfilled doing something he loves and studying hard whilst getting paid.

Read the posts on here of people that have children that refuse school and study, lay around gaming all the time, do drugs. You really do not have a problem at all.

Not anymore, or not for solicitor route anyway. GDL and LPC are ending now, he won’t need a law degree or GDL to go on an qualify as a solicitor

Though there are benefits, this is the trouble with private schooling. Bluntly, parents want a return on their investment especially if sacrifices have been made to keep them there.

Sounds to me like your daughter wants to figure out what she wants to do rather than be pushed into something she doesn't. That's admirable. Marketing is a good career.

What's to say your son will do teacher training then decide within a couple of years teaching isn't for him? So many do.

I've got 2 teens similar in age, one who left school without a clue, refused to apply to uni, and is now doing really well in an apprenticeship, and the other just about to start A-levels.

Seventeen is very young to be committing to a career path. I appreciate that some do and it works out for them, but degrees are so expensive now that TBH I think your daughter has a better plan than your son. One of my SIL's is a uni lecturer and she has told her kids to take a year out before uni, to give them some time and space to grow up a bit and really be sure before they commit to it. She's said that she sees so many first year students who clearly aren't that interested in the course but are at uni because that's what was expected of them and they had to pick something.

A properly prepared for gap year is a good thing.

I think YABU. I did well at school but along with that came a level of burn out. Being asked to make so many decisions about your future off the back of some pretty intense years of studying is not easy for everyone.

I ended up taking a gap year which turned into 4, worked abroad, learnt a foreign language and just took the pressure off. Only then did I feel ready to commit to a career and be able to look at my future more clearly. I'm now in my mid 30s with a solid career in finance and a family.

It did me no harm but I am forever grateful that my family trusted me make my own decisions and mistakes. My partners parents nagged him endlessly and their relationship is strained as a result.

Give her a break and let her live her own life not the one you think she should have.

I think if you have done science subjects it might be more difficult to understand arts and creative subjects. She’s looking at 3 languages and art at top grades which is fabulous.

Mine got straight 9s at GCSEs and in two years has gone from drama school, to medicine, to vet med, zoology, geography, eco career / green back to vet med. likewise her a levels choice went from English, drama, biology and chemistry to her now situation of further maths, bio, phy, chem and epq. I am not wealthy but I have said if she is not sure literally take a year and do work experience and travel!

Id rather she did something she wants and if doing vet med she needs to be sure!

sounds like your daughter is great and thoughtful

Not really. Better to get a stellar class in a subject he loves.

But perhaps he doesn’t actually want to do Law: he’s just telling his mother he does so she won’t make a fuss about his wanting to do History.

She doesn’t sound lost at all. What she sounds is at odds with a mother who is projecting massively her own ambitions onto her. She is not you. You are not her. Let her follow her own path.

There’s nothing wrong with her path. I did a similar degree, with a year abroad. Also a post grad marketing qualification. I now earn six figures and love my job. Just because she isn’t following your path, it doesn’t mean it’s not the right path for her.

I got good grades in school. Did lots of sciences and had the grades to get into medicine (grew up in a European country where there are no interviews for medicine, it's solely based on grades). I decided to take a gap year. Then took a second gap year. Ended up studying politics & international relations. Once I got to university I was focused, genuinely wanted to be there and loved studying, unlike many of my peers who'd started straight after A-levels.

I'm in my mid-30s now, and a university lecturer. To be honest, if I'd gone down the medicine route I probably would earn twice as much as I do. However, I have a career I love. I've had the opportunity to live in a few different countries. Regularly get to travel for work. It's everything I've ever wanted from a job.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a career in marketing surely? It covers lots of different things as well, from business to entertainment, fashion, law, academic...all these fields can have marketing related roles.

She does not necessarily have a clear path, but that is OK. You can't force someone to study maths and aspire to work for Goldman Sachs when they are clearly into the more creative side of things.

I'd say be supportive, the gap year will be very enriching. As long as she is travelling and not just dossing about at home.

She will find her feet eventually. She's clearly very bright.

Some people like you and DH knew all along what career you wanted. Which is great. Same with my Mum as a teacher. But me, I didn't really know at all until I was in my mid 20s.

My eldest son was set on the army and going to Sandhurst. He was in the army cadets and very, very fit. He passed the first assessment period for Sandhurst but then another opportunity came along and he took it. Through that he went back to Uni to do a masters , met his fabulous American wife, who was doing a masters at the same uni, and he now works for that uni . He gets paid a huge amount of money and no one is trying to shoot him or blow him up. We supported whatever he wanted to do.

Her plan is entirely sensible. Support her.

Plus, bear in mind that many people start the kind of structured career path that makes you feel safe and leave it because it's not right for them.

Marketing is a well paid, interesting role for those who like it. A modern language is an increasingly scarce skill in the UK - plus taking a year out to work out what she wants is a great idea, she will develop soft skills and maturity.

Taking the piss slightly but maybe you need the career advice to respect your daughter and see that there are many ways to develop a career and develop as an adult and she is putting more planning and thought into it than the average.

She’s sounds great, especially the part about being a social people person. That will stand her in good stead.

Poor her having such a judgemental and pushy mum. Perhaps that’s why she wants some time out, to explore her own plans in her own time and space without your interference.

Give her space. Let her be. Even if she makes mistakes she will learn from them.

I had parents with similiar views to yours and guess what? We have an incredibly strained relationship. I’m a professional violinist. Even after graduating with Masters and on full scholarship from the top conservatoire in the UK, it isn’t enough. Even being employed in one of the worlds top orchestras isn’t good enough. Nothing will ever be good enough I’m afraid. You remind me of my parents who are coincidentally also doctors…….

I constantly get the “why don’t you become a doctor/other professional” wank from them. It’s exhausting and stupid. This is what I want to do with my life. As a result I hardly speak to my parents. It’s caused unnecessary friction for years. It sucks being the scapegoat. My brother who is a doctor continues to get the golden child treatment. Trust me when I say I’ve been in therapy and on medication for YEARS. I suffer from chronic anxiety and the worst self esteem issues, and it’s mainly because of this.

Please don’t dictate your daughters life. Let her follow her passion.

The number of kids I know who struggle to use their degrees because of lack of life experience and work history.......I think your dd is making the right choice.

Maybe an apprenticeship of some sort would be better suited to her.

I know parents like you. Pushy.

It is YOU who are restricting your child’s choices.

You should take a long hard look in the mirror and give your (nearly) adult child freedom to choose her own life path.

do you accept that you are a stereotypical doctor-parent?

Sorry to hear that - you have an incredibly successful career by almost anybody’s standards. Shame your parents have to be the outliers 🙁

I went to King’s, 4-year modern languages degree with a year abroad. Took a few different jobs after uni but ended up as a manager working in marketing. My advice would be to sack off the gap year as she will have a year abroad anyway. Get temp jobs as content creator / marketing assistant etc during holidays etc. OR change the plan entirely and apply for an arts-based uni like University of the Arts in a field such as marketing / publishing etc. and lots of unis like this have a temp scheme for students to be able to apply for relevant jobs while they study. Lots of degrees have outbound opportunities abroad even if just during summer. Look up these opportunities to try and sell it to her that she can get overseas while she studies.

@JanseyB if a child or young person can't follow their dreams before they reach their mid 20s when can they?

Having fluency in a foreign language is extremely important to leading employers, whatever the field.

Please don't make the assumption that what your dc want to do now won't change in the next few years.

At 18/19 DS wanted to be a war correspondent and joined the TA, and edited his uni paper to that end. He decided he wanted to do an MSC in Philosophy, then he did a DPhil. He's now an acadiemic! Who knew.

In Lower 6th, dd was set on the conservatoire route with her singing. At the start of Upper 6th she decided to read Anthropology. Oxford turned her down. She aced her A'Levels, turned down her anthropology offer before getting in the car and when she sat down simply said "well Oxford didn't want me, let's see if Cambridge does". She read theology at Cambridge having downloaded the data sets for admissions and noting she had a 5:1 chance opposed to an 11:1 chance for Anthropology. Both, she concluded, studied the beliefs and cultures of different people. Like your dd she's a cracking linguist and kept Arabic going through three years. In her gap year she did a bit of hospitality and learnt British Sign Language!

She took a 1st despite a uni experience beset by Covid. She also did a bit of footlights and opera up there. She continues to Act and sing.

She's teaching English (and a bit of Drama) at secondary.

They both had an education that provided them with choices and potentially could set them up to be lawyers or bankers. It isn't what either wanted.

We can facilitate choice and success for our children but we can't make their choices for them. Our DC are mid/late 20s now, yikes ds nearly 30, we have seen many of their contemporaries slip off the paths carved for them by their parents.

Please don't underestimate your dd or the importance of fluency in another language in 21st Century Britain. Also, the grass isn't always greener. Many people earn eye watering amounts in Finance but very very few develop grey hairs in that world - many slither into sales in other sectors. Magic Circle Law firms and the big accountancy firms pay six figures shortly post qual but for that they buy one's soul and the pyramid is steep towards partnership.

However, almost every sector needs a comms and marketing expert and ones who are numerate as well as literate, with a language thrown in, can go a very long way, probably for 9 hours a day mostly, rather than 12 to 15.

I think you do your dd down and possibly expect too much from your ds. Law is exceptionally competitive and, believe it or not, the best magic circle firms and Chambers are looking for a second language.

Our children, including yours, are rarely predictable.

Apologies for the essay.

@JanseyB
DD is saying she wants a gap year, 4 year (year abroad) undergrad then possibly marketing masters

So she has a clear plan - its just not your plan.

Which just seems a bit chaotic

What is chaotic about the plan? Its clear - gap year, degree in business and languages followed by a business specialism.

The world of careers is wider than medicine, law and accounting. Don't kid yourselves either that she won't pick up on your disappointment in her compared to her brother when all she has done is to choose a different career path.

My husband and I are also both Doctors. Our DC is studying an ology at a Russell group university. They love their course and I am very proud of them. It's their life, not ours. FWIW my non medical parents pushed my sibling down a science route for a greater earning potential. It didn't end well.

@JanseyB are you actually sad because you feel she's limiting herself, or because she's not planning to do what you wanted for her.
I think her plan sounds great, and I wouldn't be sad if it was something my dc wanted.

Growing up ddad always said he wanted one dc to be a solicitor and one an accountant. We neither are, but are happy and successful in our chosen fields and ddad has since said that that was all he wanted really.

Your DD sounds very together and focused. A gap year is a great idea particularly if she can spend it abroad honing her language skills. The unis she is applying for sound like very good ones. I am sure she could arrange a deferral and if she changes her mind about her course, she could enquire with admissions about transferring to a different degree course. Or she could go through the process again. None of this is a disaster. She sounds like a very bright girl who is doing some serious thinking about what she enjoys, what she is good at and what her future career aspirations are. I don't think you can ask for more than that. Please support her.