To sack her?

[Jemmy78]

Changed name as friends might recognise this situation if they're on here.

More of a WWYD.

I run a charity shop/centre. We're all volunteers. I don't get paid. It's a lot of work, and there are a lot of us putting in many hours of work every week. We do an amazing job and make a lot of money for our cause.

We've been running for a number of years. Some volunteers have been there since the beginning, and some have joined recently.

Some of the "old crew" don't like the "new crew." It's all a bit ridiculous, and I try to keep things upbeat and positive. Unfortunately, I find it tends to be something women do to each other—I'm a woman, by the way. There has been some fighting and snide comments. Not a lot. But it happens.

There's one woman in particular who's known for being nasty. It's just her way. I don't know whether it's misplaced humour or if she's just a piece of work.

She missed a big meeting we had a few weeks ago. No biggie. It wasn't compulsory. When I saw her later in the week, I said I'd go through some of the main points. She said, "Why bother? Nothing ever bloody changes?"

I let that one go. I was miffed because it had been a very positive meeting, but I didn't want the aggro. But I was cross that she'd been so rude and dismissive. We'd talked about a lot of important things in the meeting - finance, budget, projects for 2024...

Last week, I was in another meeting. I had to go into the main room to get a pen because mine had run out. I asked her if I could borrow one from behind the till.

The next day, a customer, who was in the shop at the time, contacted me and said that the woman working was very discourteous and rude and that she really shouldn't be working in the shop. I asked what she'd said, and apparently, she'd said - about me as I was walking away but out of earshot - "Jesus. Just look at the bloody arse on that,"

I'm very overweight. It sounds like something she'd say. There's no reason for this customer to lie.

Under normal circumstances, she'd be "sacked" or asked to leave. But, she's an old woman, lives on her own, no friends, has nothing except this charity work, her kids all live abroad... and I know I'd feel guilty if I got rid of her. At the same time, my mum died last year, and if she was still here, she'd be telling me not to take any shit off this woman and that I should never allow anyone to speak about me like that. Well, not in a professional setting, at any rate.

WWYD?

Yeah, I don't get paid. There would be little money left to do what we do, but I'm in charge. I set it all up, and there are four other people on the board. But it's still run very informally. It will be hard for me to start laying the law down. I should have been better at it from the outset. I'm not particularly good at managing people. I tend to want to be "all things to all people". I do the admin and the "cause" bit. I'm more interested in the cause bit. I don't want to say what it is because anyone reading this who's a friend will know. I should think about handing the responsibility of the shop to someone else. It'll be hard to let my "baby" go, though, to be honest.

I don't agree that this is the way 'women' are. It's the way nasty people are. I'm in a really male dominated environment and they're bitchy as fuck in the group chat! Not to mention the splinter chats they set up separately from the people they wanna bitch about behind their backs then be nice to their faces.

Idk where this idea came from that it's a woman thing tbh. Spend enough time around groups of men and it's very clear they're just as awful when they want to be.

Anyway, get rid. You're doing this for free, no reason you should be miserable while you do it. She's overstepped the boundaries of professionalism and your ma was right. You shouldn't tolerate it.

Call har in for a meeting. Tell her what the customer said. Explain why it isn't acceptable. Explain that her negative attitude isn't what the charity needs. Ask her why she always has to be so negative. Tell her that her attitude is toxic. People like this women always wonder wht their kids ignore them. They can't work out why they have no friends. It might be time to let her know.

I'm late to the party and I don't know if it's already been said, so sorry if I'm repeating - there is no excuse for that kind of behaviour, and it's a really tough position for you to be in.

However, an older person displaying this kind of 'no filter' behaviour would have me questioning the possibility of cognitive decline/dementia. It doesn't make it okay, but it does mean there may be a medical underpinning for certain behaviors.

I'd definitely go for a conversation with her from a compassionate, supportive place, but making clear that negative and unprofessional behaviour aren't welcome on the team. Perhaps try to explore whether there's a reason for the behaviour in that meeting. If there is, then a conversation about a change of roles to non-customer facing (sorting clothes etc), and disclosure to other volunteers might be appropriate so that there is an understanding of the behaviour.

If it doesn't change and there's no reason for it, then yes, she has to go.

I think the fact a customer went to the trouble to find an email address to complain about this is a very strong indication that this needs addressing properly. How unprofessional. I was in a very small charity shop and the three ladies in there were very friendly to me and my daughter but were gathered around till slagging off another volunteer in a conversation everyone in the shop could hear. Every time we mention that town my daughter will raise the women in the charity shop - what an impression to have left.

Any good charity has a strong set of policies and this includes a strong volunteer policy. If you are unsure about what you have or might need contact your local CVS and they will be able to help you draft some. You should have a robust equality and diversity policy for example. You could look at what other local charities have in place. If you have these then you have sound back up for any difficult conversations with volunteers. What she said was unacceptable and needs to be addressed.

I wonder why her kids all live abroad and she has no friends 😂

Your organisation should have processes in place and 'contracts' for volunteers that set out expections re performance, including behaviours. If you don't have these, take advice to create and share, then use them. It would be reasonable to have a process including warnings. I would warn her and tell her any repeat and she will be asked to leave.

I've always lived by the saying "the standard you walk past, is the standard you keep."

That customer is doing you a favour. God knows what else this charmer is doing, but it is time for her to move on. Do not feel guilty; no one has to say stuff like that.

I have a friend running a similar shop which she founded to raise money for research into her child’s condition. Is it something like that OP?

If she is blunt and negative you’ll just have to speak to her in her own language. People have complained about her being unfriendly and rude and it’s hurting business.

I hope you can get this sorted out - it sounds stressful.

I would implement an improvement period . Have a meeting with her, make it very clear what you expect to see in her behaviour changes and set a period of day 3 months. If she hasn’t changed and maintained the change at the end of the period then she goes. When I was a manager I found this often worked really well, if the person involved didn’t want to change it became very clear and (in those circumstances) dismissal or disciplinary followed.

She sounds like a very unhappy woman but if her toxicity is upsetting other members of staff she needs to go, one rotten apple can spoil the whole bunch

Is there no other volunteer work in other places she can do?

@Mels8 When taking on volunteers are they required to sign some type of agreement or is it completely informal?

I volunteer for a Charity in a different area altogether. Not shop work. We were given the rundown on what our duties would be before we started but no contract/agreement form needed to be signed.

Where I volunteer though, you couldn't miss the fact though that being friendly and polite was the number 1 priority for any volunteer. Lots of thanks etc from the 'paid' management team throughout the year for the job we do and the lots of good feedback they get about us

As others have pointed out, Volunteers are not subject to the same protections as employed staff have, with a few exceptions - Health and safety issues. The OP can indeed just ask the rude volunteer to leave. Although, she may decide to draw up a code of conduct and get all the Volunteers to sign, which might make it easier for her to tell the rude lady she isn't needed any more, after a warning and a reminder that the code of conduct is expected to be followed. But it actually isn't necessary legally

I have managed volunteers and its a toughie, they are not employees so the relationship has to be different however its wholly reasonable to expect a certain standard of behaviour when representing the charity and aims. Its normally best to get your volunteers to sign up to these standards before they start but you could write them out now with your committee and ask each and every volunteer to sign them. This will cover you should any future occurrences happen. Nothing too indepth, i.e. be polite and represent the charity in a good and positive light at all times, be polite and respectful of colleagues, clients and visitors at all timed, be discrete about any information that you become aware of whilst representing the charity etc. you can combine this with updating emergency contact details should they fall ill whilst volunteering etc. PM me if you want an example.

Having said that, you can't really let her actions go without comment but you need to be tactful and considerate. Lonely people can become bitter and they may not realise how counter productive they are being, they are bitter, it scares people off, and they become social outcasts which embitters them more. Or with the elderly, it could be dementia.

Its unfortunate that the person who rang to complain, revealed nasty comments made about you as it will be even more difficult to discuss but you can't ignore it. Do you have a committee who make decisions, if so, run it past them and say you would like to chat with her to get to the bottom . Get their clearance as it were.

Then ask for a chat with her when she is not actively volunteering. Ask how she is, if things are ok and if there is anything you can help with. Deal appropriately with what she may reveal. You also need to draw attention to the day you popped out for the pen and ask if she was ok or if any issues arose without revealing the complaint. If she says nothing, then explain that you received a complaint from a customer about her unhelpful and rude attitude and that's why you first asked if anything had happened that day. Tell her about the totally unnecessary comment about your figure.

Explain, the need for respect and politeness in the workplace whether she is a volunteer or a paid employer and that whilst she is a valued volunteer, there cannot be a reoccurrence.

It may well be that she apologises and says she had problems etc but make it clear she can vent in private with you but not with customers.

If this is genuinely unusual behaviour (which its not sounding like it is or you wouldn't be here) then she will be embarrassed and contrite. However the likelihood is, she will blow up, deflect and walk as it sounds like she has no self awareness or she will be annoyed but may go away and realise she has overstepped the mark. Personally speaking, I doubt it would resolve the issue but these are steps you must take and document. You need to be seen to be fair and reasonable.

I handled volunteers who had retired from senior roles way above what I was then doing and I too was much younger than them. But I brought the potential of youthfull enthusiasm, energy, and longevity to the role and my role specific experience built with every passing day. But some always moaned as they knew better - being supportive and a team player is the best way to go. I helped them, they helped me and for the lonely ones, I provided a source of comfort and security, checking on them if they were ill etc. Managing volunteers has a whole new set of motivational factors!

Good luck!

This sounds sensible. And make notes detailing the previous incident/s
And then see if her behaviour improves..

You can't tell someone you are 'following up a complaint' about them but not mention the specifics. She has the right to respond to allegations.