To sack her?

[Jemmy78]

Changed name as friends might recognise this situation if they're on here.

More of a WWYD.

I run a charity shop/centre. We're all volunteers. I don't get paid. It's a lot of work, and there are a lot of us putting in many hours of work every week. We do an amazing job and make a lot of money for our cause.

We've been running for a number of years. Some volunteers have been there since the beginning, and some have joined recently.

Some of the "old crew" don't like the "new crew." It's all a bit ridiculous, and I try to keep things upbeat and positive. Unfortunately, I find it tends to be something women do to each other—I'm a woman, by the way. There has been some fighting and snide comments. Not a lot. But it happens.

There's one woman in particular who's known for being nasty. It's just her way. I don't know whether it's misplaced humour or if she's just a piece of work.

She missed a big meeting we had a few weeks ago. No biggie. It wasn't compulsory. When I saw her later in the week, I said I'd go through some of the main points. She said, "Why bother? Nothing ever bloody changes?"

I let that one go. I was miffed because it had been a very positive meeting, but I didn't want the aggro. But I was cross that she'd been so rude and dismissive. We'd talked about a lot of important things in the meeting - finance, budget, projects for 2024...

Last week, I was in another meeting. I had to go into the main room to get a pen because mine had run out. I asked her if I could borrow one from behind the till.

The next day, a customer, who was in the shop at the time, contacted me and said that the woman working was very discourteous and rude and that she really shouldn't be working in the shop. I asked what she'd said, and apparently, she'd said - about me as I was walking away but out of earshot - "Jesus. Just look at the bloody arse on that,"

I'm very overweight. It sounds like something she'd say. There's no reason for this customer to lie.

Under normal circumstances, she'd be "sacked" or asked to leave. But, she's an old woman, lives on her own, no friends, has nothing except this charity work, her kids all live abroad... and I know I'd feel guilty if I got rid of her. At the same time, my mum died last year, and if she was still here, she'd be telling me not to take any shit off this woman and that I should never allow anyone to speak about me like that. Well, not in a professional setting, at any rate.

WWYD?

I think you need to step up your people management skills rather than going straight to getting rid of her. You could alienate the other volunteers for one thing. They might not like her but the lack of steps being followed would worry them.

If you’re not cut out to manage staff (and it’s not that easy to do it well), appoint someone else who has the ability to calmly manage a difficult situation and turn things around.

Absolutely sack her. She's bullying you. Also, if she carries on like that she's going to put customers off coming to the shop, which would defeat your charitable purpose.

I certainly wouldn't continue to patronise a shop in which a member of staff spoke about another member of staff like that.

There is no volunteering contract that is legal. So what legal advice would be needed to remove a volunteer?

(Again, I was a HR Director for a large national
charity (tens of thousands of volunteers) until recently.)

I think it’s the combination of OP phrasing it as “sacking” this woman and people not reading the updates.

OP does not have to follow any kind of disciplinary process here. She could make it as simple as not rostering this woman on for any shifts and saying “I have all the volunteers I need, thank you”. The OP doesn’t owe this woman anything other than basic courtesy (and of course vice versa - there’s nothing to stop her saying she doesn’t want to volunteer anymore, and no need for a notice period).

However, if OP did want to take it further than simply saying “Don’t come in anymore” - even just to make a statement to the other volunteers about how such behaviour will be dealt with - she could follow the advice in the link shared by @Fluffygoon, which also makes clear there is no obligation:

https://www.ncvo.org.uk/help-and-guidance/involving-volunteers/supporting-and-managing-volunteers/dismissing-a-volunteer/

The OP isn't managing a care home!

She's managing voluntary employees in a retail setting.

This lady's attitude is appalling, she's been rude about management in front of customers, and is a bad penny.

I'd be having a meeting with her, and telling her enough is enough, and she is on her final warning. Any more off-hand remarks or poor behaviour, and she can find somewhere else to volunteer at!

voluntary employees

Volunteers. Not employees. Important distinction.

I've worked in a lot of charities. Every charity that I've worked in, had the volunteers sign a code of conduct.

Of course legal advice is needed to draft a code of conduct.

Op needs to have herself covered.

You are not responsible for her personal situation and the decisions she has made in life that mean she has few friends / relatives around. She is not relying on you for income and presumably there are other volunteer opportunities around for her.

You are responsible for your shop, your team of volunteers and your customers. She is a member of the team and she needs to respect you as her manager, her co-workers and her customers. This is what you need to focus on. She seems disruptive at all levels. I would take her aside, list the issues and ask her why she is not pulling her weight and contributing as a member of the team.I would list the things that have happened that are unacceptable - her treatment of co-workers, her unprofessionalism in front of clients - and explain these will not be tolerated in the future. Set out suggestions as to how she needs to become a better team member and charity representative - coming to meetings, adopting new policies, helping new volunteers - with concrete examples and measurable goals and tell her you will be monitoring her progress with a view to meeting in one month to review her progress. After the meeting send her a letter to document your concerns and the changes she needs to make. If she makes them, then good. If she doesn’t, then she needs to go.

As a volunteer yourself, OP, do you have the authority to tell the woman that her services are no longer required? Would it not have to be agreed by your management committee?

She said she doesn't have a management committee.

It seems to be a strange way of running a place. It's too much responsibility on one person.

I used to volunteer in a charity shop, and they had a management committee.

The OP said "There's a quorum and a committee. We have an AGM and all that jazz". I assume 'a committee' is a management committee?

Of course legal advice isn’t needed to draft something that basically says “don’t be a twat”.

Her personal circumstances are irrelevant. Her volunteering should be terminated because of her remark, as not only has she subjected you to behaviour you shouldn't be expected to tolerate, she also brought the charity into disrepute in front of a member of the public. You should however check your own attitudes as your own post contains remarks that could be taken as both sexist and ageist, and once you start (correctly) operating a zero tolerance approach, you will be expected to lead by example.

She's drafting a document for all future volunteers coming into her organisation.

She says there is an office that gives free legal advice to charities, near her, and she wants to go.

Why do you want her not to go?

I don’t care if she goes or doesn’t go.

Volunteers aren’t employees. There are no laws governing the use of volunteers (other than H+S) and they can’t take you to a tribunal/court for telling them to stop so I don’t see the value.

Charity shops put too much pressure on the managers.

Charity shops usually work with a system of having one paid manager, and then a team of volunteers.

This then puts a lot of pressure on the manager, as obviously you can't depend on volunteers to cover all of the hours. People often only volunteer for two hours a week, and they often cancel.

This then leads to the manager being under a lot of stress.

I used to volunteer in a charity shop. Very sadly, my very lovely manager ended up killing herself, because of the stress that the charity shop put her under.

She used to work five days a week. Her manager told her that she would have to start working six days a week, as she didn't have enough volunteers to cover thw hours.

She killed herself. To this day I wish she hadnt let them get to her that much, i wish she had got another job. But her mother told me that the charity organisation had broken her down so badly that her mental health was really badly affected.

I'm still anoyed and upset about It Rip Trudi.

I'd pull her into a formal meeting. Set out your expectations, no bullying, no nasty comments and absolutely no nastiness in front of any one, staff or customers. Tell her there's been a very serious complaint made about her, and under normal circumstances you'd have to fire her, but if you want her to have a chance then give her a one off chance to prove she's changed (doubt she will!) .
Personally I'd say that her bullying and this disrespectful behaviour isn't going to be tolerated as she's the cause of unrest for others.
Its the affect it may have on the charity that would bother me

My managers name was Trudi Soysal. And the charity she worked for was Oxfam. She killed herself because of the pressure she was under. I think it's good to know what kind of pressure people are under in charity shops.

A newspaper wrote an article about her, ill post the link here
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/my-daughter-took-her-life-after-being-broken-by-oxfam-devastated-mum-speaks-out/35025119.html

Personally I don't feel obliged to keep people on regardless of their personal situation if they are that rude - even if volunteering . Let her go and be rude in someone else's outlet. She only has herself to blame. You are there to manage, so manage her out

Sack her. It's not you doing it to her, she's done it to herself. She shouldn't be allowed to get away with being so nasty to everyone just because she's older. It's completly unacceptable.

At the VERY LEAST speak to her about the arse comment. Its a rude and unnecessary comment and it made a customer feel uncomfortable. Don't let her get away with it.

@Kjones27 that is truly awful.

She was rude and needs pulling up over it, and perhaps even a written warning.

I would call her into a meeting (have someone else with you), explain that you've had a complaint from a customer about her making rude comments about other people, and that it is not acceptable. If she asks what, then tell her what was said. I'd then explain that this is a warning, and any further misconduct will result in dismissal. I'd then hand her a letter with the warning in writing and expectations of how to conduct herself in the shop.

Is there anyone else within the charity you can take to the meeting with and discuss this with before hand?

If you don't get rid of her, I suspect you'll soon find that you'll lose a lot of your other volunteers (and probably customers) who don't want anything to do with her.

It would be perfectly reasonable to tell her you don't want her volunteering with you any more. Her personal circumstances are irrelevant (and in any case, if she wants to find another charity shop to volunteer at, she can).

It's a working environment, you have to abide by the law and or policy, for example the health and safety act which includes psychological safety for all as well as physical safety. Plus don't you have SOPs guide/policy to refer to such as conduct or behaviour policy?
There is also other statute law at play here to consider, not only to protect members of the public, but also everyone volunteering.
When taking on volunteers are they required to sign some type of agreement or is it completely informal?