People would be happy to pay more tax if it went directly to the NHS

[Blackcats7]

I think people would be happy to pay more tax if it was guaranteed to go to the NHS.

More than happy to throw money at it when there's a plan. There isn't a plan now. We're funding the same shit over and over.

Ok so no more money ? What then ?
What exactly are you reforming ?
Getting rid of most managers involves getting rid of clinical staff like matrons. Who ends up doing their job ?
How does an insurance system create more money and better working conditions to retain nurses, to attract more nurses ? What happens when folk opt out of said insurance system ?
There seem to be loads of MN experts on the NHS throwing out cliches like ‘reform’
and ‘overhaul’ but never specifics. And never answering how not increasing funding will pay for the thousands of nurses needed.

You start with the money leaks. The wastage that the nurses, doctors, sisters and managers have been screaming about happening and nobody does anything about.

You email and text appointments out where applicable rather than sending via Royal Mail unless there's a reason to or the patient has indicated they cannot receive digital communication. It would genuinely save MILLIONS in a short period of time.

You have to get over this culture where it takes 6 people to clean up a poo someone has done on the floor as they're 'not trained' and other issues of the like. We've had this issue. Six people could not clean up a poo an elderly man had done in the hallway because of infection control protocols and not being trained. This is costing time and money!

More than happy to throw money at it when there's a plan. There isn't a plan now. We're funding the same shit over and over.
Yes but plans need people to plan them. Which costs money!

We have people. The best people - the people actually in it. Managers need to start listening to their ward staff, medical staff, cleaning staff, porters, admin etc rather than disregarding the multitude of complaints and suggestions!

No I wouldn't be happy to pay more tax, that would be like chucking money into a black hole. I would be happy to pay £15 for a GP appointment if it meant I didn't have to wait 3 weeks for one. I think because the NHS is free at point of delivery people take the piss.

I'd be happy to pay more tax towards Adult Social Care because in my extensive experience (with elederly relatives and disabled young adult DD) ASC is one of the biggest problems that is destroying the NHS.

Too many people are turning up in hospitals or staying longer than necessary because they don't have the right social care.

Sort that out and the knock-on effect for the NHS will be hugely beneficial.

I can't afford to pay more tax. Both my rent and council tax are going up in April. No hope of a pay rise. I'm sick of being bled dry! So no, I wouldn't support it.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees "I would be happy to pay £15 for a GP appointment if it meant I didn't have to wait 3 weeks for one."

And if you haven't got £15? Or you and your 2 kids are all sick, so you're looking at £45? Or you're looking at how you pay either for the electric or the food, and simply don't have a brass farthing left for healthcare?

If everyone paid £1 a week more in tax, perhaps there would be enough money in the kitty to pay for enough GPs so that everyone could see a GP when they needed to. Instead Hunt proposes reducing NI, which will mainly benefit the highest earners, thus reducing the money in the kitty and making the waiting times - for ambulances, GPs, hospital treatment etc. - even longer.

@PeonyFlush72 "I'd be happy to pay more tax towards Adult Social Care because in my extensive experience (with elederly relatives and disabled young adult DD) ASC is one of the biggest problems that is destroying the NHS."

Who is the country's longest serving Secretary of State for Health and Social Care? One Jeremy Hunt - who in six years did nothing to improve Social Care (one wonders whether or not he ever realised that his job title had two parts) while at the same time making a complete bollox of the NHS.

The same smirking millionaire Hunt who this afternoon will be saying that instead of using the money in the government's coffers to invest in areas that badly need investment, he's going to give the highest earners a few thousand quid back in reduced NI payments, in the hope that he can bribe enough of them to vote Conservative at the next election. Meanwhile, those earning less than £25,000 a year will feel hardly any benefit at all - something they might like to ponder as they wait ever longer for their GP or hospital appointments.

It's so depressing OP. It just goes to show how effective propaganda is, as we can see from Brexit, anti-vax movement, people saying the BBC is the anti-christ etc, etc.

I'm also betting that these people complaining about paying less taxes would also be up in arms about not seeing their doctors promptly, having excellent education for their darling children, and keeping their triple-locked pension when the time is right.

It's just like my parents: voted Tory all their lives, fought tooth and nail to pay less tax, and then claimed every benefit going, including both of them getting carer's allowance for looking after each other. You couldn't make it up. All while having hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank and owning several properties.

People find it very easy to twist narratives to make themselves feel better, meanwhile this country is really falling apart more than it has ever been, and I remember how depressing it was at the end of the Thatcher era where schools were housed in portakabins and public services were crumbling then. The difference is that people recognised it then and voted for change just in time. Unfortunately people seem ever more selfish and don't seem to realise how depressing it will be when homelessness and poverty are all around us and you can't get treatment for even emergency situations.

We have people. The best people - the people actually in it. Managers need to start listening to their ward staff, medical staff, cleaning staff, porters, admin etc rather than disregarding the multitude of complaints and suggestions!

I agree, but current NHS managers are the wrong people to be implementing change ( which they won’t anyway). Real system change needs a full review of the entire mess, with proper research based on the experience of frontline staff and patients, and then needs to be properly planned and implemented.
But what happens in practice is tinkering at the edges, with overpaid management consultants, not enough real research or identifying blockers/ requirements and no real funding for meaningful change. Because to do it properly is very expensive , but ultimately would save money.

And if you haven't got £15? Or you and your 2 kids are all sick, so you're looking at £45? Or you're looking at how you pay either for the electric or the food, and simply don't have a brass farthing left for healthcare?

Being alive costs money.

The health systems in many countries require you to pay for GP appointments up front and then claim the money back later. In Ireland I believe many people have to pay 50 euros for a GP appointment. We could have a system in place whereby people on low incomes don't have to pay.

GPs are providing more appointments than ever before yet it is becoming more and more difficult for a lot of people to get an appointment. If having to pay £15 puts off those booking an appointment for a sniffle that they've had for 1 day, I'm all for it. GPs are leaving the NHS in droves because they are burnt out, because they are treated like shit by both their employers and the general public and because there is no point in earning more money because it will be taken in taxes anyway.

I'd be more on board with your idea if EVERYONE, taxpayers and non-taxpayers paid £1 from their income per week towards the NHS.

But worst come to the worst £45 on the credit card done vs say £20 a month more in tax which is like £240 a year regardless. It's like insuring your phone at £15 a month knowing in the last 10 years you have broke it once and that was only £300 to fix. Might aswell cover it with a rainy day fund.

You would also find employers offering schemes like phone a GP or econsult as an employment benefit or people using free/cheaper services like nurses, pharmacists or shock horror physicians associates. DS had an ear infection on holiday, in the UK that would be a GP appointment for antibiotic drops. In Mexico it was a walk to the pharmacy and £3 for the drops seen by the pharmacist in under 30 minutes from waking up with the pain. Pain relief within hours, in the UK I would likely be still trying to get an appointment when he was having his second set of drops.

My parents are of the generation where you go to the GP with everything vs ours of hmm is it serious no, okay give it a few weeks see if it sorts itself as it's likely viral.

I agree, they should be consulting on the change but shouldn't be implementing it. However, to fund a team to deliver this brief would be political suicide and there's not a single party who have the balls to do what needs to be done here and conduct a massive review with a view to implement. They'll watch the whole institution crumble and point fingers at the others the whole time before they allow themselves to be accused of destroying our crown jewel.

Just to add, as an example of potential changes needed.....one of the major changes within the nursing workforce was the changes made to the pension system. The only reason I'm still an NHS nurse is because I'm tied in to the old 95 scheme for a large chunk of my years and wouldn't get an equatable pension via agency. However the newer 2008 and 2015 schemes are less attractive, hence younger nurses are attracted to the agency wages and flexibility. Not only does this cost the NHS extra, it also changes the dynamics in teams and on wards as there is less ownership and pride within your service in my opinion and experience.

@Havanananana ...... and this lot are still talking about putting a cap on ASC spending so those with money can hold on to it while the state pays for their care costs! So there will be LESS money to go round. It's outrageous.

The NHS need both money and efficiency savings and effective prioritisation.

I am all for co-payments, but they need to be means tested. That would help.

But I suspect the NHS would still need some more support via general taxation.

I think many wealthier people anew quite blasé about the NHS failing as they think they won’t need it as they can afford private care. However, at the moment, no one can avoid NHS emergency medicine, and some of the more complex procedures and treatments can cost hundreds of thousands or even millions (complex cancer treatments) and aren’t always covered by insurance.

You honestly think if we pay less tax, this kind of thing wouldn't happen?

I've got a bridge you can buy if you believe this.

What reforms would you recommend? I worked in it through the Blair/Brown/Ceroj years of reorganisation and it didn't make anything better.

Money is needed at the coalface. Buildings aren't maintained properly.

Tests aren't done, presumably because of cost saving. When it becomes necessary to do the test, it finds something that could have been a big expensive problem if not dealt with promptly.

Staff are stressed and therefore could be missing things.

Yes demand will always outstrip supply but in my experience, services are already pretty highly efficient.

I agree, they should be consulting on the change but shouldn't be implementing it. However, to fund a team to deliver this brief would be political suicide and there's not a single party who have the balls to do what needs to be done here and conduct a massive review with a view to implement. They'll watch the whole institution crumble and point fingers at the others the whole time before they allow themselves to be accused of destroying our crown jewel.

Yes I agree. Whilst I hope that Labour win the election I don't think the NHS will improve under them, the problems are too enormous to be solved without major changes.

It's quite depressing to realise that both parties would prefer to let it disintegrate rather that table the hard conversations that could lead to reform.

Negative

A start time would be to stop the revolving door for substandard CEO's of trusts. You just can't get rid of them. They screw up a trust, get paid off, then turn up somewhere else 6 months later. Also, stop the continuous self serving, inward looking NHS executive. They put out ads for industry experts to help implement xyz, paid and unpaid, then internally recruit the same old people, with the same old stale ideas. Nothing ever changes. Nothing gets done. The gap between the best performing and worst performing trusts (and GP's) are huge. If all trusts operated to the best standard peactice, we wouldn't have the issues we have.

Yes agree.

It's also just undergone a pretty radical reform from top to bottom, but the public seems blissfully unaware.

It also has less managers than an organisation of its size should have, and this has been the case for decades and yet they've just slashed national NHS management alone by 30% in the last year - but the public seem to think it's over managed.