Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

According to the prison service's own statistics, male prisoners who identify as women are 8 times more likely to be convicted sex offenders than the rest of the male prison population. This should be widely publicised as it is a very worrying piece of information. The figures have been linked many times on this board.

Look who also agrees with 83% of the votes here

This from my local health board today...

How can they write this in all seriousness?

Edited to add that I'm sitting on my hands to stop me typing a response - I have several family members working for the Trust.

What exactly is the problem with that ?

Well, the clue is in the thread title.

Sex is not 'assigned' at birth, it is observed. You would hope that a science based health organisation would know that.

It's factually incorrect.

The message is directed at women and also people who are transgender and who may not associate themselves with being female despite having female reproductive organs - eg trans men. It’s just an inclusive bit of wording.

No, you are not the only one, I always wonder what they mean by that

"it's directed at women and also transgender people"

So, not men? The domineering sex being excluded in your statement betrays your intentions, IE to put women in their place

Regardless of what trans people associate themselves with, sex isn't assigned at birth. That doesn't change if one later down the years decides to change 'gender', whatever that means.

No one is assigned sex at birth. It's not inclusive to lie. It's also not hard to understand.

What on earth are you talking about ?

It’s about endometriosis. It is literally addressed to people who may have a uterus - eg women and trans men who may still have female reproductive organs.

Trans men also know they are biologically female.

Assigned female at birth is the topic, isn't it?

A poster is outraged that a healthcare practice addressed a message to “women and AFAB”. I don’t see a problem with it. It draws a distinction between women (eg biological women who are women) and people who are transgender men who may still have female reproductive organs. That message appears inclusive to me. A further poster said something about domineering males which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that message at all. Weird. Feels a hell of a lot like prejudice clouding judgement to me.

It's nonsense. Archeologists discovering the skeleton of a baby can observe immediately whether its sex is male or female. There's about five or six visual differences which I can't remember now. Which just proves that all this other stuff is just deluded smoke and mirrors.

A poster is outraged that a healthcare practice addressed a message to “women and AFAB”.

A message that is, again, factually incorrect. From a Health Board. Whether you're trying to be inclusive or not, you just can't make things up. You look stupid.

Things like that matter to a lot of people.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

You believe it an inclusive descriptor.

I think the term “assigned female at birth” is offensive.

I think it would be offensive if it were only addressed to AFAB. But it’s not. It recognises that you, if you are a woman - a biological woman for whom nothing has changed - are a potential endometriosis patient. That’s mentioned (first). The AFAB bit isn’t intended for you or addressed to you, that’s for people for whom things have changed since birth.

I absolutely understand that you don’t think its a problem but could you stop with the faux naivety

you’ve been on these boards long enough to know why OTHER people have an issue with it

No, the point is that many women find the concept of being 'assigned' female at birth to be offensive. I wouldn't say I'm 'offended' by it (except as a grammatical pedant), but it's certainly incorrect. A baby (or foetus) is observed to be male or female, and then remains so for the rest of their life.

Sure but in this case, women are catered for by the word women. It’s trans people who are being addressed by the other term, and I don’t know of course, but I assume the use of that term was done in consultation with trans people and reflects their preferred terminology without causing any kind of harm to the women who were separately addressed as women in the same sentence.

People use a lot of language which is technically incorrect. Like using the word “text” as a past-participle. Boils my piss that does. But we let it slip because that’s just the words some people use.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
It would be better if they said
'women and other people with a womb' imho.
Or uterus if that's the correct medical term?

Inclusive without being incorrect and (extremely) annoying?

'Female' covers it for everyone, even for the ones with different gender identities. Your sex never changes.

Using language that is technically incorrect in a medical setting could have disastrous consequences. And no one should be using language that is 'technically incorrect', at all.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr you try across these boards, you really do.

Your sex never changes.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson
From reading Helen Joyce I don't think everyone accepts this.
I think of gender as being a different thing than sex these days, but I believe at least some trans people don't think of it like this at all.
So it you want to be inclusive I'm not certain if female works for everyone.

People with different gender identities don’t always like “female” though. Are we not able to recognise that ?