Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

If you want an honest discussion, maybe don’t start it by calling people names. Just a basic life skill tip for you there.

How about you attempt to answer some of the questions put to you, and then you might get something back in return from the big transphobes.

And that's legal fiction. Everyone knows it. Stupid and dangerous.

I find it amazing that for 0.02% of the population and to the detriment of women (51%) words around pregnancy and childbirth have been changed at all.

OldManSign · Today 09:04
Honestly with issues like this you need both sides to sit down and have a calm and respectful discussion and reach a consensus.
LOL and where exactly was the calm and respectful discussion when they introduced this language?! There wasn't one! Women have been told that the language is changing and if they don't like it they are transphobic bigots and need to loose their jobs!

No. Women's language needs to be restored to what it was. You can't come in, change the language making the majority less safe and then when people complain say "oh both sides..."

No - women's rights are under attack, we are NOT negotiating with these colonisers.

Firstly, you have a lot of questions to answer on this thread. Any updates on that.

Secondly - names are one thing. They can be legally changed, aren't necessarily sexed. I would honour a name change.

Anything else is a lie, supporting an illusion that sex can be changed. It can't. Nothing kind, respectful or loving about facilitating lies.

Sounds like you don't actually know any trans people.

Is that correct?

'Women's rights are under attack'

Can you explain the mechanics of how accepting trans women as women might strip me of my right to maternity leave, equal pay etc.

Would you refuse to use a person's chosen name if usually belonged a gender different to their sex at birth? Would you refuse to refer to them by their preferred gender if you were discussing them with a third party?

I'll bite. No one has to participate in a lie/pseudo reality/ideology they don't believe in (especially ones that are harmful to women and children) if they don't want to.

I'd probably have full sympathy to whatever struggles they were facing as result of their gender dysphoria and would hope they were treated with kindness and compassion, like most non cunty people, but feelings don't trump reality, or my right not to be a liar.

Why should I be a liar to save someone's feelings?

It really depends on your definition of 'trans'. Which I don't think you've given.

But I'm not sure what you think is the 'gotcha' here anyway. Would knowing a trans person change anyone's mind that you can change sex?

What do you understand as a 'trans' person?

My definition is someone who identifies as a gender different to their sex at birth.

Your words make you sound like you're bristling with fury and contempt towards people who identify as transgender. Would be worrying if you were someone in a position of power or authority over a trans person, or a parent of a young person with gender dysphoria. Hopefully this isn't the case for you and never will be.

My definition is someone who identifies as a gender different to their sex at birth.

Well I have a family member who did. And now doesn't. She is exactly the demographic that has been most vulnerable to this ideology - gay, autistic.

She started hormones and after a year wanted to stop. She is left with considerable health problems due to her time on T. She has been shunned by the online communities that championed her when she decided she was trans. She is now very alone, very frightened and very damaged.

She's my cousins child, before you go blaming me for any aspect of this. 🙄 What's happened to her has been a terrible tragedy.

You sound like you don’t know how to answer questions, is that correct?

My definition is someone who identifies as a gender different to their sex at birth.

What's your definition of gender?

I understand it refers to 'maleness' or 'femaleness' in a cultural, social and/or psychological sense, rather than biological.

Have you ever asked a transwoman or transman that question?

Naunet, I don't answer bad faith questions or engage with hypothetical nonsense.

Your argument strategies - if you engage with far right radicals you see these sorts of strategies being used all the time in relation to issues around race and immigration. It's pointless engaging with them - you can't persuade people who are driven by hatred and contempt in the way that racists and transphobes. You people genuinely don't see trans women as human beings. It's scary, particularly in people who otherwise you think would know better.

I find this astonishing to be honest, when no one can even explain what a preferred gender is?

To me it seems like if a man says they'd prefer woman gender they can have the legal sex of woman and falsify documents and be in women's single sex spaces.

No wonder it is open to abuse if no one can actually explain what it even is?

You likened it to homophobia upthread but that's nonsense, being attracted to the same sex is observable and factual and doesn't remove anyone else's rights / put women at risk.

@izimbra You keep stating things that people haven’t said. Transpeople are human beings, of course they are. What is being discussed here is if someone’s belief system should be forced on other people. And also, should women be allowed to define themselves?

Do you think women should be able to define themselves?

All you've got is name calling and instructing people on how they are allowed to behave.

The Rule of the Chosen Name.

The Rule of the Pronoun.

The Rule of Lie or You are Hurtful.

The Rule of Lie or You are a Bully.

Name calling is not an argument.

This smug questioning of posters on their interactions with trans people reeks of authoritarianism and glee at being able to hate on a group of women. The oft repeated Assuming you know any trans people? also boils my piss. I wouldn't be here if my brother, an innocent gay man, had not been led down this path.

I am not the fanatic here. Have a look at yourself.

Give over you know fully that’s not what it’s used for how!!!

Well how can equal pay even be measured when anyone can be a woman by declaring a 'woman gender'. Even men who've worked as men and had all of the advantages that being men confer on pay/ employment opportunities can declare themselves women.

So equal pay can't be measured any more.

Only women can be pregnant so it won't impact on maternity pay.

And in the meantime women are being harmed by males, with or without a gender identity in what used to be in women's single sex spaces.

So please tell. me what do women gain from this situation? Any benefits? Because all I can see is harms.

My definition is someone who identifies as a gender different to their sex at birth.

But what is gender? Sex is observable but gender is meaningless, unless you're talking about stereotypes?

yes- its a term coined for a tiny minority of babies born many years ago
No one now makes a guess when genitalia are truly ambiguous (and this is very very rare)

This is mental sleight of hand designed to lull us into thinking sex is on a spectrum when it isn't. I would always delete this and replace it with female/male.

Where is evidence that you see trans people as human beings?

Read back through the thread - how trans people are referred to.

Find one shred of humanity or fellow feeling towards this trans women in any of the comments made by transphobes here, or any acknowledgement that we're talking about a tiny and highly marginalised group of people.

I understand it refers to 'maleness' or 'femaleness' in a cultural, social and/or psychological sense, rather than biological.

I'm not very feminine, am I a bloke?

Who here has said they don’t see transwomen as human?