Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

Dutchairfryer

Your men's rights activism is astonishing. More women and children ARE harmed by the fact that we no longer have single sex spaces.

You are saying we should be fine with it because they can be arrested after the event ignoring the fact that women were safer before some males made unreasonable demands.

How about we go back to the original status quo where women and children weren't harmed because of the demands of a subset of males.

Yes because we don't have the safeguarding of single sex spaces.

Agreed completely

@Remeniss

The difference is the implication, which annoys many women because assigned suggests that genitals and sex aren’t the reason for our oppression. Sex is observed. It isn’t a feeling. Suggesting that you can be born female but secretly really be male because you like football and traditionally ‘male’ gender coded things is deeply sexist and massively buys into traditional gender norms. There is no such thing as boy clothes and girls clothes. There no such thing as boy brain and girl brain. Assigned female at birth suggests that there is and that regressive gender norms taught by society are more important than physical bodies.

And someone saying ‘I’m AFAB’ who doesn’t have a vanishingly rare intersex condition is just an oppression tourist borrowing someone else’s life experiences for their own glory. It is pretty insensitive.

For someone with your username, I thought you would make more sense.

“They ask other stuff but you don’t get your knickers in a twist about how many of them were murdered as a result of it”

they - who?
other stuff - like what?
many of them were murdered - who?
as a result of it - what?

My men’s rights activism? Behave

You were the one to bring up someone being arrested and claiming to be a woman. I’m merely stating they can claim what they like it doesn’t make a difference

😂 bless you.

So the argument isn't 'trans women are a significant threat to all women' - because statistically they can't be: only 0.3% of the population are trans women, and the vast majority of them don't engage in predatory behaviour. Which makes the real issue predatory cis gender men pretending to be trans in large enough numbers that you think it's a meaningful threat that we all need to worry about. And to that purpose you fossick about on Google looking for news stories about cis gender men pretending to be trans (or occasionally a story about a predatory trans women) share it all over social media and shout 'look! trans women are a threat to all our safety'.

And I wonder what makes you different from the Tommy Robinsons of this world campaigning for a halt to immigration under the banner of 'Asian grooming gangs mean that all Asian men are a threat to our children'?

Observed. It is observed. You are not assigned your sex at birth.

Ignore anybody trying to tell you that their are bigger problems in the world. This one is massive and it is the posters who shout you down who either have an agenda or are too stupid to know that there is one.

Ummm but when did having women’s only spaces protect women and children? I’m pretty sure peeping Tom’s and toilet rapists have never been stopped by a picture of a stick figure in a dress on a door.

If doctors assign sex - it implies they can do so arbitrarily.

if infants are killed because they are assigned female at birth - shouldn’t the doctors just start assigning all babies to be male? We can avoid all this slaughter.

How do you know they’re pretending?! Sounds very transphobic.

So you think that that person who was convicted of harming women in a single sex spaces isn't trans then, how can you tell?

What IS a trans woman if it is not a man who declares that he is a woman? Why don't you believe this man when he says he is a woman?

How can we tell who is a 'genuine' trans woman and who is a man trying to get into single sex spaces to sexually assault or to masturbate or all of the other vile reasons that men want to abuse women?

@Remeniss Care to address anything I said to you?

Then why are sexual assaults more common in mixed sex changing rooms compared to single sex?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Ah so women will be harmed anyway so we should stop all safeguarding???

You might be burgled anyway so do you leave your front door open or unlocked?

@izimbra I find your 'not really trans' argument interesting.

How do you know this man isn't really trans?

Being trans is how a person feels so you can't tell can you? Or are you being transphobic?

It irks me as well. We don't pick the baby's sex from the Sorting Hat, aside from a small % of babies born with DSDs, sex is not assigned.

Not really, it’s would be like responding to that chicken in Moana that keeps throwing itself into the water.

whether you agree or not, trans people do actually exist and whether you think it’s right or not, they can call themselves whatever the hell they want.

So the argument isn't 'trans women are a significant threat to all women' - because statistically they can't be: only 0.3% of the population are trans women, and the vast majority of them don't engage in predatory behaviour. Which makes the real issue predatory cis gender men pretending to be trans in large enough numbers that you think it's a meaningful threat that we all need to worry about.

Women have already been harmed by men accessing their spaces on the grounds of 'I'm really a woman, honest'

Whether you'd consider these men to be 'truly' trans or not, I don't know. I'm not sure it matters. I thought the only criteria of relevance is the person declaring themselves to be a woman. Or do you have another criteria that could be applied? If so, do share.

Ultimately this comes down to a simple question. How many women have to be harmed for you to consider this to be unacceptable. Please bear in mind this number is already greater than zero.

So let's have it. What's that number?

Being trans is how a person feels so you can't tell can you? Or are you being transphobic?

Exactly. I thought that anyone who says their trans should be believed. No exceptions. So that sounds like a very transphobic position according to TRA principles.

Yes @TheKeatingFive I think this is important, as is pointing out that we don't want to exclude trans women from women's single sex spaces because they are trans but because they are male.

Women are at risk from all males.

This is nothing to do with not believing that trans people exist it is believing that women should be safeguarded from the risk that is posed by males.

And that children should not be put on harmful pathways.

AFAB & AMAB are all part of the problem.

For clarification’s sake. This isn’t a vendetta.

There is plenty of context in language but I would assume there are words/terms that you have an immediate response to because of the deeper understanding you have. I won’t list slurs but there are many.

When hear “assigned male or female at birth” the image springs to mind of a doctor randomly choosing who gets to be born boys or girls. I think of all those girls who have suffered immense pain, violence and torture because of their sex. No one assigned them to a life of violence and torture- they are murdered raped and disfigured because they are female. Their femaleness is inherent, not gendered. Only a sadist would inflict those choices on an infant.

i hear assigned female at birth and I wish so many births had been assigned male instead.

YANBU

No one is “assigned” anything at birth.

Even for the small amount of people with a DSD where the incorrect sex may be recorded they are not “assigned” anything

@Remeniss Good to see you’ve resorted to insults.

I never said trans people didn’t exist. They obviously do. Gender expression- true freedom to wear what you like and be who you are is a valuable thing. Everyone should be able to dress and express themselves how ever they feel comfortable without fear of violence or discrimination.

But wearing dresses or liking make up = being a woman is a deeply regressive gender norm and part of the historic oppression of women. In a truly free society women could talk about this without being labelled as ‘transphobic’.

In the same way that women should be able to discuss miscarriage, infertility and child birth without having to centre men in that experience. Women are the only group of people not allowed to define themselves and their experiences without reference to others. That is sexism.