Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

There's no such thing as gender. There's only sex, personality and dysphoria in some individuals around their sex. That is the ground rock of reality.

It how is someone describing themselves as afab asking you to Center men at a childbirth discussion???

the vast majority of comments on this thread are highly theoretical and exceedingly dramatised.

trans people responsible for the potential eradication of FGM, Jesus wept.

men donning skirts to enter women’s toilets to perpetrate abuse because they wouldn’t dare do that with a moustache and a pair of trousers on. It’s hard to take such a discussion seriously.

What is wrong with changing the term

Assigned Female at Birth

to saying either

Observed female at Birth or Recorded Sex at Birth was Female ?

Could there be an issue with this?

Sticking a picture on a door is hardly safeguarding.

Any explanation for this @Remeniss? I’m really interested to hear why you think this happens.

@Remeniss do you think it is accurate to say sex is assigned at birth, in other words that choice comes into it?

@Remeniss well if you don't think it's worthy of a serious discussion, go away and don't discuss it. Leave it to those of us who realise it is a very serious subject

It's representative of a social contract. Which people understand and uphold in various ways.

Yet you want to dismantle this and make women less safe. Same question for you then. How many women do you consider to be acceptable collateral damage here. Let's have that number?

Well you are ignoring the evidence presented by Naunet.

Keeping all males out (including trans identifying males) of women's single sex spaces protects women.

Not to mention some of us would just prefer males to keep out. Given that some trans women acknowledge that they perform womanhood as part of a fetish I'd rather not be an unwilling participant in that.

Or is it that women just don't matter much to you?

I don’t really care, people can describe it however they like. Anyone having a head wobble over the language is strange. it is what it is. Jane thinks it’s assigned Gary thinks it’s observed. Who cares man.

Or is it that women just don't matter much to you?

It is very hard to argue that this isn't at the heart of it.

When men's feelings are prioritised over women's safety and dignity

Is that true of all things, people shouldn’t care about how things are described? Trans women shouldn’t have a “head wobble” over being called a man by some people? Or do you pick and choose who is allowed to call out inaccurate and offensive language?

One article from the independent is hardly evidence.

anyone can find something on the internet to support their argument.

I could probably find an article about how security cameras in toilets reduce the risk of assault but that doesn’t mean everyone should do ot

Women don’t matter more than anyone else, to most sensible people that is.

Just like how DH doesn’t think men matter more than women, I don’t think women matter more than men.

And aren't they still one or the other at DNA level?

There isn't an actual 3rd sex

@Remeniss It’s the erasure of the female
experience. Women exist in a form we define for ourselves, despite what society would tell us we have to do or how to dress. This includes being able to draw boundaries on our own spaces and (crucially) be able to exert our rights over our own bodies.

Women being told that ‘female is a feeling’ is denying us the truth of our existence and what has been done to us by patriarchal society- everything from defining our sexuality to dress codes and mental capacity.

So it is not surprising that women push back when told that we should be able to identify out of these oppressions (as if it were that easy) and that anyone who feels womanly (the definition of this provided by the rigid social norms created for us by men) is part of our group and can therefore share our spaces and define us on our behalf.

It is the same regressive sexist bullshit as always. Someone else gets to decide who we are and whether or not we can speaks. And they are they same group of people who have always done this to us. Same shit, different decade.

If activist could engage with this on any level then there could be a constructive conversation. But as we’ve already seen in this thread, the same chauvinistic attitudes are on display: crazy old ladies shouting at the sky. You yourself compared my mental capacity to that of a chicken. Hardly the tactics of people who have any respect for women. Why should we respect our oppressors?

There’s a huge difference in defining your own experience and being so entitled that you think only your definition matters

We're talking about women's safety being compromised because of feelings in men's heads. That's ok by you?

It's misappropriated from terminology used for babies with DSDs (i think that's the term).

Maybe I live a sheltered life but I’ve never seen that term anywhere.

Expand on that for me because it seems clear to me that AFAB is the way that respects only one definition.

AFAB would seem to me to indicate that only gender identity matters, by implying that sex is a matter of choice. Born female respects both sides by acknowledging that people born a certain sex may not go on to identify with it, which is important to trans people, but also that sex is an objective reality, which is important to women.

how does AFAB respect that not everyone agrees with the gender ideology approach to sex and gender?

So has anyone explained why the bloke who was convicted of sexual assault last week who told the police that he was a woman and had every right to be in the single sex space where he assaulted women, is not a trans woman?

Has anyone explained what gender is? And why gender is so important that women's safety and dignity should be ignored to accommodate it?

And why gender is so important that we no longer should observe sex at birth but rather we should assign it?

Because it all seems like a load of bollocks to me, that women should be collateral damage for some feeling that some men get that can't even be defined or measured?

do you object to “born female” or “observed to be female”, and if so, why?

Ok, so where’s the support/evidence for your argument that it makes no difference? If you have such a high standard when it comes to evidence, I’m sure you’ll have loads of it, yes?

It’s an inaccurate term which should no longer be used because:

1. If a baby is born with a DSD, a doctor no longer “assigns” a sex based on which surgical procedures are feasible. Instead, s/he will order tests to determine the baby’s sex, such as a chromosome analysis and a pelvic scan.

2. A fetus’ sex can often be determined as early as ten weeks gestation, due to non-invasive prenatal testing. Even in pregnancies where this is not possible, the fetus’ sex is normally visible on an ultrasound scan long before birth.