Assigned Female at Birth - AFAB

[ShugarTits]

AIBU to get the actual rage every time I see this written down? Often in reputable sources.

Obviously this has come about due to people differentiating between gender and sex - I understand needing clarity between those two when talking to or questioning people.

but every single bloody time I read it I can only think of the horrific female infanticide statistics. AIBU to think ‘assigned female at birth’ is fucking offensive to women, as so many of us are killed at birth ONLY because we are female. Nobody assigned those infants a female sex, they didn’t just randomly pick half of the babies and murder them.

can’t we agree as a society to call out AFAB and AMAB as being horrific and change it? Happy to hear alternatives. Observed female/male at birth sounds reasonable to me if you need to specify birth sex vs gender.

wtaf

Doesn’t really matter if she thinks about female infanticide every time she sees those letters.
Fact is those babies are killed because they’re female. They don’t get the chance to identify out of it.

@Dutchairfryer Did you read my post?

That’s exactly what all this shit is. Bigoted. Women are not. They just are…not. Not real. Not a thing. Not worthy. Just whittery idiots who think we are victimised.

all this gender is different from sex shit is stupid too. It IS based on sex.

case and point - how can a male have gender reassignment and have a vagina “made”, claim they are now WOMEN but then say oh gender is nothing to do with sex? Well then you’re not transgender your transex and therefore believe that sex ‘matters’ and that female “gendered” clothes etc are related to your sex.

SO trans people are by the very nature fundamentally opposed to gender isn’t associated with sex-ers (non binary for instance)

this is all so stupid. People are acting as though someone came along and arbitrarily slapped the terms man and women onto people. They didn’t. It is observable at birth and has been for fucking millions of years.

and the intersex argument is ridiculous. If all trans people were actually intersex, that would make sense. If their biology/genes showed us that they were actually more male than female or vice versa, then what we would have is a bunch of people who were mis-assigned at birth. But we don’t. They aren’t. We have a small number of people who sadly have congenital differences who were raised under strict gender stereotypes but whose biology associates more with the sex which doesn’t adhere to those stereotypes. And yet trans are appropriating these people’s congenital disorders (because that’s what it is) and using them as an argument to support their mental illness and perusal of gender stereotypes.

honestly it’s as stupid as if someone said ATLAB -Assigned Two Legs At Birth. No. You were born with two legs. Anyone born without a leg has a congenital disorder. Ffs.

or ABAB - assigned black at birth.

all the while women are still being raped. Still being abused. Still being treated like second class citizens simply because we ARE female. And there’s nothing you can do to blind people to reality, no matter how hard some people stomp their feet and scream that we should pretend we can’t tell who is female or not!

you are so right op. We don’t get to CHOOSE how we are born or how we are treated.

How does any of that change whether someone’s sex is observed or their gender assigned??? It’s literally the same outcome. What a weird thing to be fixated on

It gives credence to a movement which has moved on to locking up convicted rapists in women's prisons, sterilising and mutilating vulnerable children, removing single sex services for female victims of rape and violence, amongst other things. Once you insist that everyone bows to this new belief, you can't pick and choose the bits of the whole that you think are ok.
Read "Time to Think" by Hannah Barnes and "Trans" by Helen Joyce. Well researched and accessible.

Exactly, why can’t we just stick with facts?
Do we need calm and respectful discussion with people who claim the earth is flat too? I mean, stay respectful by all means, but facts are facts.

Eh I think all of those are ok, as I’m not a frother

There we have it.

@Remeniss

You genuinely can’t see the difference? Sex is the reason why girls have to undergo those operations and why they have to wear niquabs and not go to school.

How do those societies choose who these things happen to? By their ability to sexually reproduce. Why cut off the clitoris? To stop women enjoying sex. Why wear a niquab? To hide and horde female bodies. Why stop girls from going to school? To stop them from learning that they have other choices and to keep their breeding potential safely in the control of men.

This doesn’t happen because someone assigned them this role at birth. This happens because of their innate sex AND the gender norms of that country.

By all means try to tackle the backwards gender norms. But don’t try to tell those girls that they can stop the abuse by men by just identifying out of being a girl. It’s not true.

I believe it should be

• male
• female
• transgender male
• transgender female

All of this steers dangerously close to ‘women get raped because they wear dresses’ territory.

Well if you can't see how claiming that babies sexes are assigned rather than observed is part of the mangling of language in favour of dividing society by gender, then I really can't help you.

Gender is a social construct. No one can actually define it.

Yet it is being used to allow men who claim to have 'woman gender' into spaces that used to be reserved for the female sex. The fact that this has increased harm to women is undeniable, even by the most ardent trans ideologists. Just last week a male was convicted of sex crimes in what used to be a single sex space, on arrest he said 'but I'm a woman.' And why not , if being trans is a self declaration on something that no one can see and cannot be defined who can prove that he is not a trans woman?

So just how many women and children must be harmed by men in women's spaces for you to see the issue? Or are women just acceptable collateral damage.

And when he said that on arrest did the arresting officers instantly release him?

thought not

Well why would they? Are you claiming that trans women can't commit crimes because I really don't understand your point?

How does the term AFAB and AMAB help trans people? Or are you not here to discuss, just throw around childish insults?

Oh I think I get your point, women ARE collateral damage.

Doesn't matter if we now are at more risk of sexual assault than before, so long as the male gets to be where he wants to be.

Bit of a stretch mate, get a grip.

Is there any difference between a doctor assigning a gender based on someone’s genitalia or observing their sex?

um not at all. If a child is born with a vagina it faces the same risks regardless of whatever semantics angry mumsnetters believe should be preferable.

the term AFAB literally has no bearing on genitalia mutilation, domestic violence of femicide all of those things have been around millennia before this dumb pointless debate

Did you forget what you wrote?

You said that the movement is negatively
Impacting women, and that just last week someone was arrested and declared he was a woman. Unless that is a get out of jail free card why does it bother you what people being arrested identify as?

It doesn’t impact their sentencing, and 9/10 it doesn’t impact where they spend their sentence either

Are you more at risk of sexual assault now purely due to the trans movement?

Who cares if god created the world, or it was the Big Bang? It’s literally the same outcome. What a weird thing to be fixated on.

And yet here you are, debating it 🤔

Picking at letters on a for. Because they are inclusive to trans IS transphobic. The letters aren’t hurting you, and I’ve yet to see evidence of the letters on a form physically hurting anyone.

You sound like my 80 year old mum moaning at so many ethnicities on a form, Jesus.