What to do about new estate we’ve moved to?

[Applepastry]

We’ve recently moved to a new build estate. It’s directly next door to a council estate (no issues with this as my mum was brought up on one and lots of my friends were and are from council estates. Everyone seems friendly enough.
My main concern is that all the kids play out in the street, I totally understand with the ones who are 7 or 8 +
However there are 4 and 5 year olds playing out alone, without any adult supervision at all. My DS is 5 and he doesn’t have older siblings. These children will often come and knock for him and he asks to play out with them when he sees them all out on the street. I have been going out with him, but he asks why I have to go, when none of the other parents do.
They all wander up towards the park which is around a corner and you can’t see it from the estate. When I’ve been up there, it extends quite far and joins on a stream and woodland. I’m not comfortable with my 5 year old going up there out of my sight.
Other parents don’t seem bothered and just say “Oh I wonder where G is…he must be at the park”

I’m not a helicopter parent, but AIBU about 4 and 5 year olds (one was 3) being out in the streets by themselves? Some wandering in and out of other houses and into the road?

I just don’t know what to do about my DS as he’s keen to be accepted in this new area and wants to play out with them. He’ll definitely stand out with me or his dad hanging around.

I don't believe they'd say it was fine. It might not be illegal but I know our local.police would suggest 'good practice' and that isn't. I KNOW as a foster carer that police have informed SS and others families have reported young children have been out unsttended

Ours were allowed out in back street with friends with me or dh overseeing. When they got to 8ish we allowed them out without us watching but no wandering etc and we'd pop our heads out every 15 mins or so.
That progressed to doing the loop on their bikes.which was out of sight and then to the park on own at 9/10.

Trust your gut. You know its not acceptable so dont be emotionally pushed into changing your correct response. Its hard for him. He'll want to be the same as his friends but if you back down now , what about when friends don't wear helmets on bikes, start smoking, drinking etc. Tell him you need to keep him safe, that's your job and you're gonna do it.

This is unbelievable generalisation! I expect many would take offence. However I do agree that regular unstructured time for for young children is not good for them in the long term. Definitely not for 8/9/10 year olds as it’s such an important age. And that total freedom with no supervision could be really dangerous for all she’s really.

*ages not she’s!

I don't understand what any of this has to do with it being part council estate?

But the kids in the OP are as young as 4 and 5.

This isn't the UK is it surely? Never seen that here. I wouldn't let my 9 yr old do this let alone 5.

How times have changed! I’m a child of the 90s and when I was young from about 5ish before the internet took over the only thing we had to do to entertain ourselves was being out on bikes in the street or playing street games like bulldog!

We generally stayed in the street where our parents could see us out of the window though 🤣 Nowadays no kids ever seem to go out of the house or move from under the watchful eye of their parents and I think society is probably worse off for it as they have less social skills, although I do completely understand the worry at the same time!

It’s kind of refreshing to hear of kids playing out in the street again though, instead of being inside staring at screens constantly. The kids in our street are never out! We used to live in a cul- de - sac and all the kids who lived in the 8 or so houses there would all be out together after school.

I don’t really care about what statistics say, in my opinion allowing a very young child to wander around on their own unsupervised is more than “statistically” rather unlikely that something bad will happen. 🙄 Just like when young children are left at home alone. Hence why social services remove children from the care of adults who allow this to happen to their children. If I have any more children, when they’re young I’ll leave them to their own devices and say “Hey, it’s fine guys, because some random on MN said it’s okay because statistically it’s very unlikely anything bad will happen”. I’m sure they would be thrilled and not see any fault in that logic whatsoever. Climate change is not comparable day to day to your children getting abducted or ran over because you can’t be bothered to look after them properly. Every parent is consistently and solely in control of the welfare of their children. We are not as ordinary individuals on a day to day basis in control of the actions of other countries that do far more damage to the fate of global warming than we do. So I’ll do my recycling and other bits I can do for the environment but the safety of my children will always be my paramount priority. If you wish to express your views or concerns about it, please feel free to create your own separate thread as opposed to trying to derail this one when it’s not directly relevant to it.

Your gut is right - these kids are way too young to be in a park or woodlands- with a stream! - without adult supervision. They are vulnerable to all sorts of risks, from bullying through accident to abuse by an adult. I don't believe the parent who said that the police said it was OK for her 4 year old to be supervised by a 6 year old sibling - I suspect she claimed that she could see her kids playing out.

When I was a kid we'd play out all day, and we never told our parents about the guy who would regularly expose himself to us in the wasteland - with stream - where we used to go. And my brother, who was an awful bully, had free reign when we were all away from parental supervision.

I suggest you keep your son busy with Scouts and a sport, and play dates at home, in the garden, or in the park with you near by. Don't have open house as your neighbour has such a bad experience.

Your son needs to learn that different families have different rules, and that your rules apply to him - so bedtimes in your house might be different to some of his friends, but it's up to each family to decide.

This was my thought too!

Maybe its just my area, but kids aren't playing out below the age of 10/11 (coinciding with getting ready for secondary school). Our primary doesn't let any kids except Yr6's walk home alone, so I kind of use that as a temp-check. My DS is almost 8 and none of his friends play out on the streets and I can't see him being sensible enough to be left unsupervised for quite a while yet!

No, not unreasonable. 4 and 5 is too young. Could you suggest some of the younger ones come to play in your garden? Obviously you don’t want the whole horde of neighbourhood kids descending on you but finding a way for him to be involved is important.

As a Council kid myself, we were always in huge groups, there'd always be little ones, think the youngest was about 4, and as we were in a big group we'd always be okay

It's a no from me. We live in a cul de sac and they were allowed to play out front but when some of the other kids started wanting to venture further and to the park nearby they could only go if I went to. Don't let a 5yr old dictate what you are comfortable with or other parents

I don't think children will fail to flourish because they weren't allowed at aged five to go unsupervised to a park, out of sight, with other 5-year olds. Even if there are a few older children around it isn't worth the risk.

Even in the 50/60s when I grew up we weren't allowed to go to the park alone aged five - this was the days when we would be out all day(!) but only in the street or next street. But by about 10 all bets were off and we'd be out all day in the streets and park - seems extraordinary now!

I agree about not letting him go to the park. There is no reason why he can not play outside with other children where his mum can keep watch.

No way. As others have said, poor wee April Jones springs to mind. Children of 4/5/6Y out for long periods of time unsupervised is, to my mind, very irresponsible. All it takes is a car going a bit too fast or a driver looking at their phone… or one bad person with bad intentions…
I have a 5 year old and there’s no way I’d be happy with this. I’d be saying “You can have play dates in the garden and go to the park lots with mummy or daddy (or another trusted grown up). I can’t keep other kids safe, but I can try to keep you safe. I love you.”

The children will not come for play dates. OP has already said that. So yes she will be isolating him from the neighbourhood children.

That’s ok though because this is just the beginning of how the unsupervised children will be parented differently. The OP needs to accept this difference and make her life easier by making boundaries now. If that means her child will be ferried to clubs and activities, instead of playing outside unsupervised, so be it. Most people have to organise activities and their kid’s social lives.

There will be other families on the estate, council and otherwise, who don't allow their young children out without supervision, so her son won't be isolated from all the neighbourhood children.

Depends where she lives.
My sister took the approach of never letting her children play outside unsupervised. They were the only family to do so.

Letting a 4/5 year old play out unsupervised is shit parenting. Just keep saying no OP. Your child plays outside with you there or not at all. Just because some parents are lazy and negligent shouldn't make you question your approach.

I was out in the street at five, in the 1960 s..
At 7 a permanent thing OUT in Street.
Age 11 I was venturing about 5 miles ( in London) with Sister twin and one other.
Age 14 I was travelling 80 miles on train.with frien.
ALL THIS IS NOT possible nnow.
My daughters were not allowed out alone till 11....walk alone to senior school. .
Once a child is abducted and hurt, it cant be undone ,theyre scarred for life.
And its hell for all family,

Are you in Scotland OP? It’s not that unusual for P1s (4/5/6 depending on birthday/deferral) to play out near me. Have to admit it does vary by demographic though.

So I think @Bringtheweatherwithyou makes a good point. It is a different type of parenting (typically) that allows kids that age out alone or in the care of a big sibling/cousin. You may also find that these are the kids that get a phone and social media age 6-8 (yes, I know a fair few) and then in turn the interests and chat becomes quite different to those kids who have been sheltered from that… which is natural. I actually like my kids having friends from both worlds but OP should recognise that this might just be the tip of the iceberg.

We’ve moved off a council estate a few years ago as we couldn’t extend into the loft (can’t stand up in them) and needed a larger house. My older 2 children played out at the time from around 7 - our front door was always left open as were the neighbours. Our estate was all little cul de sacs and full of kids playing we knew all the neighbours and families and it was a lovely community. My younger 3 children don’t play out as we no longer live on an estate and I miss it. I don’t know my neighbours from Adam. It’s just not the same environment where we are now.

When I had these difficulties I always thought what would I think if I read a news article about a five year old having something happen to it and the parents were no where to be seen. It’s guided me well.