Who pays for holiday/holiday expenses? Is this fair or just stingy?

[KThughes]

NC/NA for this.

I’ve been dating a man for the past year (15 months to be exact). We both work full time jobs. We do not live together. I’ve never been married and don’t have children. He is divorced with 2 children.

He has always been wealthy. Earns over £2m+ per year. I have always been financially sound/worked. We take it in turns to pay for things and that works just fine for me. I have a good career, but obviously don’t make as much as he does. I pay for all my own bills myself and have never needed financial help from anyone, even my parents.

Since we started dating, he has acknowledged many times that he loves how independent I am as his previous partners were apparently ‘gold-diggers’. He repeats this sentiment often, but even if he didn’t, I love being independent and having my own income and career path. I have no debt and live alone - and within my means.

He’s since sold his company (which was after we met) and has become even more wealthy. Sunday Times Rich List wealthy. Not the top of such a list, but definitely on there.

He now wants to go on holiday to celebrate. As in a blowout celebration. I suggested somewhere more low key and not so crazy. He suggested St Bart’s etc…

He said he’d pay for my flight and we could ‘figure out the rest while we were there’.

I said no, as I am financially astute and would need to know what other expenses could amount to prior. Are we talking additional charges of £1k...? £5k…? £10k...? More?!

I also said I didn’t feel comfortable with this all. He told me to ‘relax’.

He acknowledged that I have a great career and job… but that doesn’t mean I should have to potentially put things on my credit card or dip into savings - for a destination that I didn’t choose. A destination that is astronomically expensive.

I’d happily pay my own way - even my own damn flight if the trip was less extravagant on the whole. I don’t even WANT my flight paid for, especially if it means I’m going to end up being ‘liable’ for many more charges as a result of this trip.

I also don’t want to be called a ‘gold digger’ by him. I can’t help but feel like this is almost a ‘test’ of sorts. It is a really bizarre situation and makes me feel… honestly… gross.

My partner makes a lot more than me. I do make a good wage and like you, pay own bills, no debt and own house. We always split things equally - well I got it last time, it’s your turn sort of thing. He does try and pick up the more expensive tabs, but it works itself out.

last year he wanted to go to Caribbean. So did I. He wanted luxury I could afford. So we worked round my budget for hotels , but he upgraded the room, package and flights. It was his treat. Didn’t ask but gratefully accepted.

we had a chat about money ages ago and he said he wouldn’t mind paying if it was something he wanted to do. As he said I do lots of things for him that don’t cost money.

just tell him that you can’t afford it. If he wants to pay it’s a treat that can’t be used in fights. Just take it as a gift. If you are serious then that’s what happens. He must know you are not taking him for a ride

This man would give me the ick for the gold digger comments.

He's not going to get better, he's not going to become more generous or understanding of the vast difference in your circumstances. If he wants to live his life extravagantly, that's his choice and he wants you there with him too it seems, but he'd rather put you in debt than stick his hand in his pocket for fear of you 'using' him for a holiday HE wants.

Maybe that's fine in a boyfriend, not at all husband material though.

And if you were thinking of kids... he'll be even worse.

look, this is a big event and you deserve to celebrate. I’d love to celebrate with you, but my budget is x. I don’t go into debt for holidays. That means a weekend in the Cotswolds or similar if we are going halves, and that sounds lovely to me. But you are clearly unimpressed, and want to go to st Barts. It’s just a fact of life you would have to cover my costs if you invited me to an expensive destination like that, and if you don’t want to do that then you go on your own.

and if he goes on his own dump him.

OP I had a relationship like this a long time ago (and nowhere near the same levels of stratospheric wealth!). My ex earned well and at the time I was a poor student. I was very keen to maintain my independence and he also made a few comments about how he loved that about me. But equally he wanted a (relatively speaking) extravagant lifestyle that I simply couldn't afford. We ended up splitting up, as we couldn't do much together - he felt he worked hard so deserved expensive treats (fair enough), but wouldn't pay for me without making a big deal out of it, even though it wasn't something I'd asked for or even wanted to do. Sometimes the different lifestyles just aren't compatible when they're worried about "gold digging".

I now out-earn my husband by about 30% but obviously never make an issue about who pays for what. Even when we were dating I would pay for both our flights and then we'd split the cost of accommodation. We didn't even discuss this beforehand, it was just clearly the fair split given our relative income levels. With the right person the income gap won't matter.

Sounds like a complete bastard to me - a cunning one at that. He is playing games with you. Don't let him take you for a fool, no matter how rich he is!

It's a shame but do you really want to live the rest of your life like this? He obviously has either been burnt in the past by a relationship or fears it. As a result, he is making unreasonable demands on you.

He can't have his cake and eat it. He either needs to lower his sights in terms of the extravagance of the holiday, so that you can afford to pay your share, or meet the shortfall of your means to allow the holiday he wants to go ahead. He can't demand that you just 'manage' his expectations.

In all honesty I think you need a 'make or break' conversation where you lay out the fact that you are never going to be able to match him in terms of spending and that if he wants to live the lifestyle that matches his income, he might need to find someone else to share that with.

I'd say its simple really, you just say sorry, St Bart's is out of your price range and 'figuring it out' as you go does not align with your values. This is why you are as financially sound as you are and you're not prepared to dip into savings for a destination that is not of your choosing, to celebrate something that was also not of your choosing. If he would like to go then that is fine but if he is asking you to go with him and you've explained it's not in your budget then he either pays for the trip in it's entirety (with the exception of your spending money) and he shuts up about it. Otherwise off he trots alone - and then I'd suggest he stays alone because frankly if a millionaire cannot afford to take his girlfriend on a trip he wants her to go on then he's a tight arse who I could not be dealing with.

I think you give him 3 options

You can go but your maximum budget for the holiday is £x which you will give him at the start of the trip and he pays for everything.

You go and he pays for everything and the next holiday you pay for (somewhere a lot cheaper)

You don’t go and he goes with someone considerably richer.

I love to travel and or budget has always been healthy but at £250 just for a normal lunch then I think it would be a horrible holiday always dreading what the next bill would be.

If you decide to go, I would put the agreement in writing so he can’t moan at a later date.

I would make it very clear to him that whilst you have no interest is his own financial situation, you do have great interest in your own and your not willing to commit to spending unspecified amounts of money to help him celebrate his great wealth. Make it clear that this is your budget for a holiday this year and you would love to spend it with him but you are in vastly different positions and you will not be living beyond your means just to keep him happy. It’s a really unfair ask from him.

Christ, all these complicated suggestions - putting things in writing, lengthy conversations about options and values.

He's playing games, dump him. Life's too short for these shenanigans, and this man sounds like a prick.

@KThughes I translated the "going around in circles" bit of your post; he won't compromise. You've offered your reasons, along with some alternative options. He, however, doesn't seem to have offered anything. You're showing some great boundaries around how you deal with your finances, and he's trampling all over them. It very much looks like a situation you can't win. Are there any other areas of your relationship where he always gets to say how things will be?

I almost think its he who is the gold digger, in an odd kind of way. He will only be with someone if they are prepared to keep up with his expensive lifestyle, whether it's because they can afford to or love him enough to get into debt seems irrelevant. I'm calling him the gold digger because the terms he has set for being with him mean that you have to spend big. Perhaps he should scan the rich list for his next partner.

If he's that wealthy, he probably has had a lot of hangers on, so I have a smidgeon of sympathy but that's all. Interesting how he's been so quick to call out the gold diggers but not the inevitable men who will also undoubtedly have tried to use their connection to him to boost their own wealth opportunities...

I'd be worried this is a power play and that he equates wealth with value. It's almost like telling the OP she's a "good girl" for managing her money well and "not being like those other girls" but now she's made her point it's time for her to acquiesce to the richer, more powerful man. At which point he can then accuse her of being just like the others. It's a bit like negging.

At the very least, even if no ulterior motive is at play, the man is clearly out of touch with how far removed from most people's existence his level of wealth makes him. Nor does he possess any emotional intelligence to recognise this situation from the OP's perspective.

I have a couple of friends whose incomes are significantly lower than mine. Sometimes I treat them outright, no strings attached. Most of the time though we choose something that fits everyone's budget so no one feels patronised, beholden or exploited.

YANBU
He may have been stung before (or it could be a cover for stinginess) but you've been together a year and are clearly not a golddigger.
I would expect him to pay most, with the expectation that you pay your flight or buy a nice dinner one night. It would be different in a more reasonable loction.

On a much smaller scale when we were both poor students, with my first boyfriend he offered to take me away for valentines for a weekend. I was very clear that I'd rather book a cheap room then have money to go out and have dinner etc. He was adamant we book a very fancy hotel, then asked me for half, then got annoyed when I had run out of money the last day. The rest of our relationship was like that, he never liked to pay for anything, he would want to share a taxi home to our respective houses, but insisted on being dropped off first which saved him money but cost me more.

You don't expect him to pay for everything but it's also nice to know your partner is willing to treat you occasionally.

In all honesty, I think this relationship doesn’t have legs. He sounds like a self obsessed stingy bastard and at the wrong side of 50 myself, I’d have told him what I thought and that would be to eff off. If you want kids and a marriage, I would be very wary.

If this is a fun for now relationship, however, I would just say he wants to go to St Bart’s, you can’t afford it. He can either go on his own or pay the whole trip for the two of you and you’ll take him away for a couple of nights on a cheeky little weekend, which you can afford to pay for later in the year.

If he decides to go alone, I would dump him so fast his feet wouldn’t touch the ground.

He may be testing you, OP. But he’s the one who has actually been tested, and failed.

Stinginess is a very ugly trait in anyone. For me, it’s a deal-breaker in a relationship. Like you, I have always paid my own way. I enjoy treating friends and relatives, and I would rather pay more than my share than risk taking advantage of someone. OK I do accept that’s partly because I don’t want to look mean!

I did once go out with a skinflint man who was in other ways very interesting: artistic and had travelled widely. But his obsession with getting cheap deals, when he was very well paid, was so boring.

Two things I’ve learnt, from him and others:

Misers aren’t just tightfisted with money. It permeates their whole character. They are ungenerous with their emotions and in their dealings with other people. It often goes along with an eagerness to do people down or even swindle them.

The meanest people I’ve encountered have all had plenty of money. Sometimes that’s for the obvious reason that money has been their great love and their only career goal. But sometimes it goes beyond that: it’s like a hunger that can never be fed enough.

I would think very little of your millionaire.

It's amazing how rich people can tell a poorer person to 'relax' about money, while planning to make them spend what they don't have! You'd have to be crazy to feel relaxed about that!

I'd throw this one back in the sea. He sounds tight. And the talking about women as gold diggers would give me the ick!
He does not sound attractive at all. If you stay together he's going to constantly pressure you to keep up with him and if you expect him to pay for anything, he'll portray you to the next Roman as a gold digger!

The thing with rich and powerful men OP is that you don't get that way by being nice. Oh sure, a very small percentage will manage that. But on the whole, especially if you get rich in business, you do it by being ruthless, not by taking other people's feelings and circumstances into account. So he'll be someone who's used to getting his own way and manipulating situations so that he does get his own way.

The more you write, the more unpleasant he sounds. He's proud of your independence but also threatened by it and would like to take it away from you. I would just tell him you're not going on this holiday with him, as you cannot afford it. If he blows up/ sulks/ does anything other than apologise and offer to pay the entire bill, without mentioning the words 'gold' and 'digging' then it's the end of the relationship.

There will be very, very few women as rich as he is so he is always going to encounter this problem. And women are not as rich because of all the inequalities we face, inequalities which I suspect have helped him get where he is today. So if it were me, I'd bin him off without any further discussion.

He basically doubled down on wanting to go to a 'tropical destination', which is why he shut down the Cotswolds. I suggested that I pay for the entire Cotswolds trip and he pays for the entire St Barts trip. I got no response.

It's more his sneering at other women that bothered me. He said - when at my place and sitting next to me - that his ex 'didn't work' (in such an awful manner). This was followed by with yet another compliment to my independence. Whilst that's nice and all, I pointed out that his ex was a SAHM (which is work) and she raised/is still raising their two boys. That shut him up. He then retorted back a few minutes later that she had 'never worked'. Ok. Whatever.

I think ultimately he sees me as 'free to travel' with and go on dates with. I do think he genuinely believes I am not a 'gold digger' - but because I am financially independent, it's almost like he doesn't need to make any effort and that 50/50 will be the way to go forever, which is simply unrealistic.

Also, his £2m salary is just his salary alone. It doesn't include the amount he literally has post sale/post shareholders etc... it's eye-watering. More than tens of millions. Closer to £100m.

With all things considered, it's just gross. I live alone, I work hard, I have a good career, I pay my own bills. I do not have debt and rarely use a CC. My CC is paid off in full every month.

To go to St Bart's - with no financial control/expectations of the final bill would be beyond stupid. It's a no from me.

"I would love to celebrate with you. I have x amount of annual leave days and y £ to contribute towards the holiday and spending money. If this isn't enough then I won't be able to make it"

TBH I don't think he can call you a gold digger if he wants to do something with you that you can't afford and he can. It's not like you're asking him on holiday and expecting him to pay. If he's not willing to sub you to go on his holiday or lower his expectations to something you can afford then get rid.

I would love to talk to one of these alleged "Gold Diggers" and get their take on this situation. It looks like he is setting you up to become one of them that he will bitch about to the next poor sod.

If he wants to fund the holiday - great. Go and enjoy but if he keeps bringing up his "dont worry" BS without giving you any idea of what amount it involves then it is time to GTFO.

Thing is OP, if I won the lottery, I'd take my partner and his daughter on a holiday anywhere the three of us wanted to go, and foot the entire bill for all three of us, no questions asked. Because I love him, he's my partner, I respect him and he is the person I would most want to celebrate my luck with.

Now I know for me, that money would be luck, whereas your partner probably feels like he has all that money through hard work. But really, if your partner doesn't want to treat you to a holiday, because he can and he loves you, just bin him off.

It is gross. And it’s over, isn’t it? He’s disrespectful about the mother of his children and is setting you up to be disrespected in your turn.

There you go. Look at how disrespectful he is about his ex, do you even know if he provides for his children as he should? That kind of resentment would make me doubt it. if he has that kind of money and is so worried about gold diggers that he won’t pay for a holiday that he wants to go on then he’s not ready to date anyone. Get rid of him. PP is right, it is a bit like negging.

He sounds horrible, ungenerous, mean and misogynistic.

You sound fucking fabulous.