Who pays for holiday/holiday expenses? Is this fair or just stingy?

[KThughes]

NC/NA for this.

I’ve been dating a man for the past year (15 months to be exact). We both work full time jobs. We do not live together. I’ve never been married and don’t have children. He is divorced with 2 children.

He has always been wealthy. Earns over £2m+ per year. I have always been financially sound/worked. We take it in turns to pay for things and that works just fine for me. I have a good career, but obviously don’t make as much as he does. I pay for all my own bills myself and have never needed financial help from anyone, even my parents.

Since we started dating, he has acknowledged many times that he loves how independent I am as his previous partners were apparently ‘gold-diggers’. He repeats this sentiment often, but even if he didn’t, I love being independent and having my own income and career path. I have no debt and live alone - and within my means.

He’s since sold his company (which was after we met) and has become even more wealthy. Sunday Times Rich List wealthy. Not the top of such a list, but definitely on there.

He now wants to go on holiday to celebrate. As in a blowout celebration. I suggested somewhere more low key and not so crazy. He suggested St Bart’s etc…

He said he’d pay for my flight and we could ‘figure out the rest while we were there’.

I said no, as I am financially astute and would need to know what other expenses could amount to prior. Are we talking additional charges of £1k...? £5k…? £10k...? More?!

I also said I didn’t feel comfortable with this all. He told me to ‘relax’.

He acknowledged that I have a great career and job… but that doesn’t mean I should have to potentially put things on my credit card or dip into savings - for a destination that I didn’t choose. A destination that is astronomically expensive.

I’d happily pay my own way - even my own damn flight if the trip was less extravagant on the whole. I don’t even WANT my flight paid for, especially if it means I’m going to end up being ‘liable’ for many more charges as a result of this trip.

I also don’t want to be called a ‘gold digger’ by him. I can’t help but feel like this is almost a ‘test’ of sorts. It is a really bizarre situation and makes me feel… honestly… gross.

You sound reasonable.
He understands that he wants lux holiday.
If he really wants to go and wants you to accompany him, you should agree to go and for him to pay for accommodation and flights on the condition that he never calls you a golddigger, nor thinks of you as one.

Discuss the G word.
Also expect him to accompany you on a holiday next time that is your choice and low budget.

I would sit this one out. Tell him you'll take him for dinner instead.

It would also make me question his intentions, if he loves you and wants your company on this holiday and has plenty of money to afford to pay for everything without having a detrimental impact on him financially, then why wouldn't he WANT to.

I would give me alot of pleasure to take and pay for someone i love to have an amazing holiday together so that would be my main issue with this man.

This is exactly what I said/did.

I'm sure in his head, he will translate it as: "She only wants to come if it's a free holiday. Oh look. Another gold digger."

But I am financially sensible, so I will not be going on this trip - certainly if it lands me in a hole of sorts. I don't have any debt. So no way am I starting now. I am also not willing to be 'tested' all the time. I wouldn't even feel comfortable with him paying for everything.

It feels really 'wrong' to be almost punished for being financially independent. Not sure if that makes sense.

This is it. I need at least some information to be able to make an informed decision. When people go on holiday before, they generally have a sense of how much to budget. Certainly a ballpark figure. To 'figure it out when there' - especially in a place like St Bart's - is just not on for me.

This relationship seems pretty doomed if he's always going to consider you a potential gold digger. What happens if you end up having a family with this man. Will you become an actual gold digger when you go on maternity leave?
Even without a family, Will you have to justify your gold digging ways every time you spend money and be grateful for his house he pays for?

This feels like he's setting you up to fail. So you go along on the holiday being clear that you only have x amount you can afford to spend. He says don't worry about it, relax! You get to day 3 and you've hit your budget, and cannot afford to spend more. Suddenly, the cost of the remainder of the trip is on him, and you can easily be labelled a 'gold digger' for expecting he treats you to an expensive holiday, even though he's put you in a situation where you don't have a choice. If you refuse to go, you're easily a 'gold digger' for putting the brakes on the train unless he pays. It sounds like maybe he has a history of relationships that are vastly unequal in terms of wealth and he keeps creating this self-fulfilling prophecy that justifies his beliefs about women.

All that said, if I was Times Rich List wealthy and I wanted to have a big blow out holiday to celebrate with my partner, there would never have been a question that I'd pay for the whole thing. After all, it's a treat and a celebration for me, not for anyone else, so of course, I would pay.

"It sounds like maybe he has a history of relationships that are vastly unequal in terms of wealth and he keeps creating this self-fulfilling prophecy that justifies his beliefs about women."

@mindutopia Spot on.

I agree. If it were me and I was that wealthy, I'd just pay. Certainly for a partner.

But I also respect that no-one is entitled to a 'free holiday'. I've always paid my own way in life and in previous relationships, never had arguments over money as I don't take advantage of people and nor do they of me.

I can see both sides, but I'd never expect someone to join me on an expensive holiday without any basic information of costs and then tell them we'll 'figure it out when there'.

I'd need to know if the expense is £1k... £10k... £20k...?? More?!

Sitting it out. The stress/worry of being in St Parts (ironically) would kill me.

I don’t know, I think you should directly address the gold digger comments and how they’ve made you feel because it will pop up again in other ways

Are you sure he is actually wealthy? I am getting a touch of the Walter Mitty's from your account.

Hahaha. Yeah, it all checks out. If anything, he's underplayed his status. But it's almost secondary. You aren't your money - but it seems like it's a huge deal for him. I get that there will be vultures in life, especially where there is money involved, but this whole thing feels really dirty/icky.

He’s trying to make you dependent.
I wonder whether he sees it as a challenge.

Don't budge. Seriously this guy claims to be wealthy but plays all these feeble mind games?

Really. A wealthy man does not need to do that. An inadequate one does. He will not feel so terribly rich unless you go. This grotty little game is all about his ego and you must play in it or it is no fun.

I'll wager he has not had many long term relationships. I've dated wealthy men with similar game playing. Basically they are bored with life.

if you want this relationship to continue, perhaps you need to be a bit nicer than my suggested message yesterday, but still clear. More like:

you know how you called your exes gold diggers? Was that because they wanted to spend your money for you? Well it feels to me that you are doing the same thing. You want to decide how I spend my money. I am happy to pay my own way, but that means I have to have control over how I spend my money and budget for big expenses, you refusing to discuss costs of this holiday, and insisting I don’t get to be involved in the planning of something I’m expected to pay for is you acting like a gold digger, you are spending my money for me. Can you understand how upsetting it is?

hopefully taking that approach that you need clear details and be involved in the planning when it’s your money, will make him realise what he is doing.

if he can’t accept he is trying to spend your money for you, then you need to end this relationship.

So do TWO holidays.

He pays everything on his choice. You pay for everything on your choice.

Probably solved.

He really doesn't sound very nice. Stinginess is such an unlovable quality. I wonder how he provides for his children, and does he give anything to charity?

His attitude to his previous partners is unpleasant. And statistically he is unlikely to ever meet someone who can match his income. He seems to view relationships purely like a spreadsheet, how sterile! With his closed off heart I'd say he is destined to be on his own in the end.

What's that Bible quote about 'It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven'?

I would knock this relationship on the head. Happiness with him seems unlikely.

He wants his cake and eat it. He wants a woman with him not just for his money, which is understandable. That's the problem when you are rich and single the constant worry that it's the money that attracts others rather than them as a person. I can also I understand that once you offer something, the expectation that he will pay when things are expensive is set.

BUT, he can't expect a lady to be his companion to share all the great experiences he wants to live and share when it cost much above what they themselves can afford.

You've been together for over a year and it's time to have the discussion about the future and how it can work, or not. This holiday is only one instance. There will then be another one and another. You need to be clear where you stand going forward and he needs to accept that companionship still involves some sacrifices, either accepting that he needs to pay more (and risking the person becomes more interested in the money than him) or that he will need to celebrate lavishly with people with people of fortune too.

At well over a year into the relationship, if he pays for the entire holiday, is that really such a bad thing? You've been together long enough now.
He's sold his business, he has a lot more money available, maybe he just wants to treat you? If the relationship is serious and marriage is planned for the future, then maybe it's time to start easing up, not going halfsies on everything and enjoy what he has...together.

Ah, fair enough lol. I once briefly dated a man who vastly exaggerated everything about his life: he said his parents were aristocracy (they ran a fish and chip shop) he said he had an IQ of 180 (hahahahaha) he said he was a 'senior project manager' he was a mid level sales clerk. You get the picture!
This man sounds icky and as if he is playing mind games. I'd bin him off. Just because he is wealthy doesn't mean he gets to be the big I Am and make you prove yourself to him again and again.

I agree actually with the idea that HE is gold digging YOU here. He’s trying to get you to subsidise his expensive holiday, with no limits on how much you could be asked to spend or what your liability is. If he’s that rich, he knows business. Would this be a good business proposition? Agreeing to something with no budget and no constraints?

just say all of this to him. What's the worst that could happen. You either break up with an idiot or he gets his head out of his ass and admits he already knows you're not with him for his money and he can drop his guard.

I would reply with 'No sorry i cant afford a holiday like that and am not prepared to get into debt to go on one'...make it short and snappy and it puts the ball back in his court.

This is a great idea.

Remind him that you’ve always shared expenses equally and you don’t want to change that as you’re worried it would damage the relationship. Tell him his planned trip is out of your budget so you won’t be joining him - but you hope he has a fantastic time.