To have told my niece she won’t make it into Oxford uni?

[Awfulaunt]

Hi all,
first off sorry if there’s typos I’m typing this on my phone.
for context, I’ve been a private tutor for years, mainly English and History. Over the years I’ve helped with lots of UCAS and applications including a few oxbridge ones. My niece is at the age where she’s thinking about uni and her parents asked me to tutor her for English and History, I agreed. She is bright, gets Bs and the occasional A or C. She asked me if I think she should apply to Oxford and I said “No not for your undergrad. Maybe if you work really really hard at uni and do extracurriculars and things while you’re there and come out with a first you could try for your masters if you want to do one, but it’s not really an option at this moment in time.” All seemed fine, we carried on and she seemed okay. Fast forward to now and I just had SIL on the phone shouting at me that I crushed her dreams and that she was going to apply and get in and show me (etc). I said I’d love it if she did, I’d be absolutely thrilled if she got in to spite me.
I don’t think I was harsh when I told her, I don’t think it was cruel. I think it’s kind of my job to tell her. I didn’t rule it out in the future because I feel like once she’s at uni she will flourish academically because she will have more freedom etc and I’ve told her this many times. I feel horrible that I’ve upset her but I genuinely think it was the right thing to do.
I sent her a message saying I am sorry if I came off harsh or anything I just want what is best for her. Also spoke to DB who said SIL was just angry because niece was upset and that he thinks I did the right thing. Bit miffed that he let her speak to me like that, but also when she goes off best thing to do is stay out the crossfire.
Am I in the wrong and just blind to it?

My son had 4 A* at A level and GCSE all 9s and one 8 and didn't get in. I don't know what they look for; didnt even get an interview. He ended up in Durham where they mostly take averages of Bs and As. So all the hard work and nothing. I don't think grades are the only thing that oxford looks at.
However, OP you are a relative, and regardless of the fact that you were tutoring her, I think the blow/dose of reality should have delt by someone else.

Totally reasonable, you were simply giving your professional unbiased opinion.
Your sister in law will hopefully calm down in time.

I have met many more Oxbridge academics who would rather the students they teach did not do anything extra-curricular than who would like them to be well rounded. And have never heard of extra-curricular activities being a source of discussion at interview.

This. How would someone even cope with the standards and the workload at Oxford if they were only getting Bs at A Level? Even if she did somehow get in, she'd be hopelessly out of her depth.

YANBU

I was put into the ‘Oxbridge’ group at 6th Form - those they encouraged to apply due to predicted grades. The application and interview process is hard and I didn’t get a place but I wasn’t upset about it. I didn’t get the vibe I wanted there. Instead I went to another top university which met my needs so much better

Oxbridge really isn’t everything!

This is absurd. I doubt there's a single admissions tutor in Oxford who cares about Duke of Edinburgh awards. In two years of sixth form, two summer schools for Oxbridge applicants and four years at Oxford I never once heard a single person even mention it. Not once.

There's no denying that it's incredibly hard work. I did NatSci and had lectures on Saturday morning. Some people, like in all universities were unhappy, but there is a lot of support available. The key thing in my opinion is choosing your college. At Cambridge, Churchill was where I chose to go as it was 70% state school with lots of "normal" people and I had a great time. My best mates were the sons of a bus driver and a coal miner (really!). There are hardship funds available so you don't need to be mega rich. Other colleges can be more elitist (Trinity) and some outright snobby (St John's in my experience) which is why choosing is so vital.

I come from a poor single parent household.

Got poor Alevels due to homelessness and caring resp.

Went to a low end university.

Entered world of work and realized I'm as bright as those who went to oxbridge.

Life has been wonderful to me since working.

Am happy, healthy and financially comfortable.

That’s very true. I understand why people are thinking it’s like a job interview, or even senior school, both of which will mean long hours spent with the applicant, perhaps having to interface with clients or at school needing to join in as s team member for games etc. In those contexts the roundedness is well sought, and with reason. But in the Oxbridge interview time will generally be spent in scholastic work. They want the ones who will grapple best with what they teach. Also colleges often are informally competitive within themselves: they want the best academically and they have a slightly different way of perceiving that from the gcse/ a level syllabus that focuses on conscientious preparation of a very accessible syllabus.

I hold it a child abuse to even make the prediction. Burdening that onto the kids.
I don't know if the admissions process was already this tight in the 80s, not having been through it. But it was a very obvious abuse of me, when the adults excitedly labelling me gifted just because I had been a "hyperlexic" early reader spent half my childhood, from 8 to my pressure breakdown at 14, treating it as an expert certainty that I would go to Cambridge, and chicken countingly recklessly predicting it, both as part of my school's propaganda and to relatives the world away. At 8 they told me I had to want to do it because I would spend my life feeling frustrated if I underachieved.
Instead, their fantasy took on a life of its own, laughing off any cautious words by me and giving me no say over my own rational limits, resulting in a pushed too hard crash, adolescent unit, and the school still did not give up the Cambridge objective even after that, though my work now was not remotely near it. I achieved nothing beyond O-levels, did not go to uni at all, was better off for that as i was not in debt facing Thatcherism, and I have lifelong post-traumatic anxiety against taking on any type of exam course ever again.

I’m sorry to hear that Cardiff. It’s a very wise caution to parents.

Oh yes I heard that one too! Total crap but I believed it at the time and was intimidated by it - that’s why all these stories are actually damaging.

The grade boundary for these applicants would often be lower . That’s what we are trying to say. The grades are a first screen but, as they are not the determining factor, if there are valid reasons a candidate may not have top grades, they may get a chance to show their “ untutored” aptitude at interview. It’s also why some people are saying “ but I know someone with a 6 who got in !” ; others are pointing to top grades that didn’t get in. The grades are a general starting point. There is so much negative talk around oxbridge interview process and that it excludes the underprivileged; but really it is designed to do exactly the opposite ( as far as practicable) by allowing the very people who will teach them to sit with them and see how they would perform on precisely the sorts of exercises they would need to do when they got there - irrespective of how well their school/ background prepared them for a set of exams not in fact see by that university.

This sounds perfect.

You’re the expert and have the experience. I don’t think you’re being at all unreasonable. SIL sounds pushy. Getting into Oxbridge is difficult even for the very academic and it’s not necessarily for everyone. There are plenty of other good universities

If she claimed to be transexual or a minority she´d get in even as a C student. I heard directly from the horses mouth that Oxford has to become diverse now. IF she says she identifies as a cabbage she´d get in tomorrow.

I think you need a new horse.

Its possible it was the donkeys behind you were listening to.

This is too late unless she wants to take a gap year and apply with grades in hand.

Who or what is the horse on this occasion?

That’s even sillier than the ‘You have to pass an arcane High Table dining test involving unpitted soft fruit’ myth.

Was the horse wot said it an actual horse or just identifying as one?

No that’s true, it is possible that the admissions staff of several Oxford colleges all happened to converge on every Oxford related thread.

Given the timetable of the admissions process, it’s not correct.

That’s what a dd did. Hadn’t been working, predicted grades not good enough for the course/uni she wanted.
She pulled her socks up and got the grades, applied post As, 6 unconditional offers, took a gap year, got a job and saved some money.