To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

The thing that rattles my cage the most is the constantly being told 'NOT ALL MEN'

Unless a male is calling out other men's bad behaviour, however insignificant it is.... taking other men to task for misogynistic comments or actions ...it's just words.

Noting is going to change unless they stick up for us...but I think that's far too uncomfortable for them, and therefore it's a case of 'look the other way'.... it doesn't directly affect them.

I think the maxim that power corrupts is very true. I think that prioritising one sex over the other corrupts the thinking of the more powerful group as we are seeing. The answer is for neither group to hold power over the other.

Said so much more eloquently than me !!!

Gosh, I can't believe people believe this rubbish. Are women really walking about thinking woe is me?

Not at all. There's many of us working very hard to change things. Raising awareness, campaigning, using our time, skills and money and any power we do have to protect and uplift each other. Just as women have done for centuries, enabling some women to inhabit safer worlds where in their ignorance they can dismiss other women's suffering as 'rubbish'. And causing men to be sufficiently concerned to come onto forums and try to convince us its rubbish too.

Obviously the title of the thread is supposed to be provocative. There have been some really interesting and thought provoking comments here from lots of very intelligent /articulate posters from both sides and some lively debate has taken place.
It’s a shame that you have chosen not to take any of it on board and instead have added such a reductive comment.

Shame its all been for nowt then

Quite possibly not. Because there are plenty of women who have internalised misogyny and misogynistic attitudes towards women.

My mum was one of the worst and her views of women (and men) echoed those of the most misogynistic men I've met - women shouldn't work or be educated beyond compulsory education because men find it intimidating; women shouldn't be accomplished at things a man isn't (esp 'man' things eg tiling); because it emasculates men; women get themselves raped, get themselves pregnant and should ask themselves what they did to deserve it if they are hit by a man); women shouldn't be opinionated or weaponise their intelligence (challenge a man) etc. All marriages breakdown because of the woman - the poor men...

We are immersed in it.

All I can say is that I must have been very lucky with virtually all the men I’ve ever known at all well (father, brother, male relatives, boyfriends, dh) and conversely, that the OP must have been particularly unlucky with hers.

How many times do people have to explain that this is not about the men in your immediate family, but men as a class? The men denying women an education, the men keeping them out of the workplace, the men committing 99% of violent crime? Is it possible for posters to look outside their own tiny bubble and read the paper?

Exactly. I feel as if I am living in an different world from the one in which these women seem to live. I just don't feel this overwhelming threat and hatred and unpleasantness from men.

Apparently not.
How many times do you read posters saying "only on Mumsnet" when they read something that they haven't personally experienced.

I have not come across it therefore it does not exist in real life and anyone who says they have experienced it must be making it up because if it was real, I would have experienced it.

“Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work. “

There is a built in bias here: we all tend to discuss problems but there is no need to discuss things going well

I am a brown woman. I am not even going into the amount of abuse that happens in the community even in the UK, because that apparently is beyond these posters' experience. Not my Nigel, you see.

But my sister lives in the US, supposedly the land of the free, and her young daughter can't get an abortion unless she travels several hours. Because of a bunch of mostly men who have made the rules about a woman's body.

That's not my experience. I find men get praised to the skies for the most basic of standards that should be the default. Of all the posts on this thread waxing lyrical about amazing men, I've yet to see one where it doesn't just amount to basic human decency.

I see dozens of threads on here about men who earn more than their wives/partners- because their wives do the childcare- and enjoying lovely lives spending "their money" while their wives are forced to eat beans on toast. That seems to be the new form of abuse for cool millennials who would never hit their wives, but think it's ok for husbands and wives to have completely different standards of living. I see dozens of threads by stepmums drafted in to do the childcare of their step children, while the men swan off to play golf. I see dozens of threads by women who believed in the concept of "common law wives", have spent 20 years looking after DC and doing low paid jobs, now left high and dry by their partners.

@Sususudio - yes very perceptive.

It is the same thing, repackaged. It is the good old allowance culture but actually worse, with the same attitudes underneath. The only saving grace is that society is getting slightly better at seeing it for what it is and understanding that in some cases, it is a crime.

The caged bird still sings.

That's true.
He's an amazing husband. He's an amazing dad yet when you say really? That's great. In what ways is he amazing, the most you get is a short list of the most basic of things you'd expect from any functioning adult.
Or you get told to fuck off and they don't need to answer you. Which is a very clear answer, let's be honest. 🤷

I must have been lucky as mine does more than 50%. In the lazy one.

I agree with some of your points though. Some men do hate women and others do feel superior to them with their needs always coming first.

How lovely your life must be. Truly an apt user name.

And if you can just stop centring yourself for a moment, does none of what you read in newspapers or watch on the local, national or international news happening to other women matter? Or does that just pass you by?

The happenings to women in Afghanistan, Iran, and Pakistan passes you by? The number of women murdered by their ex partners in the UK doesn’t matter? The number of police being disciplined for their misogyny passes you by? The recent news about sexual abuse and sexual assaults in the British Armed Forces is lost on you? Absolutely no female friends or family members screwed over by ex husbands and the justice system? Amazing.

Truly a lovely life.

Indeed.
I wish every woman in the world could say the same.

Watching that Sarah Everard documentary last night should have been a bit of a course corrector. If the majority of men are good, kind people...why do they let the Wayne Couzens of this world flourish.

Exactly. Lots of anecdotal evidence of wonderful men in these women’s lives but I don’t think there have been any convincing statistics posted so far that refute the thread title. Would love to see those if they are available though!

I think it is more the general entitlement of missed my chance and could see that he was aggressively drowning and shaking his head as if to say, "you missed your chance" he then aggressively sped off, all over a misunderstanding which he hasn't lost anything from.

A version of this happens in person as well, cheer up love might never happen stuff. Once or twice when I was younger, men in bars (at university) commenting on you and your friends smiling or not and being labelled miserable if you didn't laugh at their crappy jokes. Lots of prick tease comments to me at university as I was quite naive and genuinely thought I would be invited back to have a smoke and drink back in halls. However, this was a long time ago now so hopefully things have changed. I have a DS who is nearly 17 and yes he is educated etc. So it may make a difference but there doesn't appear to be any ownership talk anymore like when I was a 6th former, boyfriends generally regarded you as there's not explicitly said but even in expectations of loyalty or protectiveness. I remember ending a relationship of a few weeks when I was 17 as I wanted to have fun with my friends and not be heavy with a boy and my boyfriend was in year 2 of 6th form college, all of his friends ostracised me for breaking up with him, they all commented on how horrible I was ( I wasn't) but it was tricky as we hung out in a social group of boys and girls. I think this has improved but not entirely eradicated by any stretch of the imagination. My DS had a girlfriend who broke up with him and he was upset etc but we talked about and there was no lambasting of her or her choices.

Oops, the anecdote above was about driving in the first paragraph and when men give way or let you out of a junction.