To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

Not really. The male members of my family are all lovely but that doesn’t mean a lot of what is said above is irrelevant just because I happen to know a few good ones.
And as PPs have said - Wayne Couzens’ family and friends thought he was a nice chap.

Dh is genuinely one of the good ones but structurally I see the contempt many men have for women clearly and concur with so many previous posts.

I find it frustrating that Dh is treated like a hero for basically being a decent person. When I was in hospital having dd1 he was spoken of in awed tones by all the medical staff at how “amazing” he was. He was just being normal. Friends say how “lucky” I am. Friends moan about their Dhs but mine is an aberration. Such a low bar for men.

Actually Dh has not gone as far as he should have at work despite being brilliant because he is not “one of the lads”. So men who don’t buy into the mindset get penalised along with women.

But I'd feel the same if I saw a feral dog or a dog without it's owner come towards me on that dark stretch of road. I don't think all dogs hate me! And I've had a terrible run in with a group of vicious teenage girls on a bus to know not every woman is a saviour. In that instant, an older man stepped in to help me. I don't think all women hate me.

For every Wayne Couzens there's a Lucy Letby or Beverley Ailitt.

Have you never seen the number of instances where women groom/manipulate young women for sex trafficking. Or run brothels. Or all those girls at school who are bullies. Power is the drug, not sex/gender. And yes, in most cases men can have more power than women just because of physical strength. But a woman in power can be equally rotten. If we got rid of all the men you'd still have violence and crime committed by the bigger stronger meaner more psychopathic women in society. Just look at how blood thirsty and war oriented so many female PMs/Presidents are.

For every Wayne Couzens there's a Lucy Letby or Beverley Ailitt? What? Do you actually think there are equal number of male and female violent offenders?

Also, to clarify, are you comparing a man walking towards you on a dark road to a feral dog?

That post (by @OodlesPoodle ) has made me feel sick to my stomach.

I won't even dignify it with a response.

Not all men have to be violent to benefit from men's violence.
Men's violence is a tool of structural subordination of women.
even women who never been raped in the dark alley are vary of this possibility - because this is structural.

I think it's the other way round personally

No I don't. But I also think male on male violence exceeds male on female violence - so what's the relevance? And it was a point made to show how ridiculous it is to use the example of Couzens to explain why men hate women. By that token most nurses hate their patients - given how many serial killer nurses like Letby, Ailitt etc there have been in history.

A strange man, a group of teenage girls, a feral dog - yes, all can feel threatening on a strange dark road. I don't think any of the groups they are a part of hate women because I might be nervous around them.

Given that men kill at least one, more typically two women weekly and rape and sexually assault thousands of women every year, I'd say it would be understandable for women to hate men. It's amazing women don't hate men more tbh.

You're making very little sense so I'm struggling to respond. Yes men are violent to both men and women - surely that makes the situation worse rather than better?

How how how would anyone with a brain conclude from Lucy Letby etc that all nurses hate their patients? Are you just messing around? Do you seriously think the number of nurses who kill is comparable to the number of men who kill? What are you on about? Seriously?

For every male perpetrator there is not a female perpetrator. That is a lie. If its a lie you have been told and believe then you can easily find crime stats to show you you have been lied to. If you already know its not true, then why are you saying it?

“For every Wayne Couzens there's a Lucy Letby or Beverley Ailitt.”

OodlesPoodle, this is numerically and catastrophically inaccurate!

I don't know the exact ratio of violent murdering men to women but I would guess it’s thousands, if not tens of thousands, to one.

You think a strange man, a group of teenage girls and a feral dog are all equally threatening? Really? Genuinely? I can't figure out if you're just saying these things for effect or if you really feel that way. If you do feel that way, fair enough, but I would venture to argue that most people (men or women) wouldn't put men and feral dogs in the same category, and they certainly wouldn't put men and teenage girls in the same category (in terms of threat). As for putting feral dogs and teenage girls in the same category...I'm a bit flummoxed on that one!

I know! That is absolutely ridiculous. You only need to take a five minute look at stats to know that the vast, vast majority of violence is committed by men. There are as many female murderers as there are male (when we look at the figures strictly by biological sex) is such easily provable bullshit that it's baffling why anyone would bother claiming it.

Geez, critical thinking is very lacking in some posters. So let me break it down for you. @5128gap @BallaiLuimni @Giggorata

1. Argument: Men hate women because Wayne Couzens and other men murdered women.
   Counter: This logic means that nurses hate patients because Lucy Letby and Beverley Aililtt killed patients.

2. Argument: Men hate women because men commit more crimes against women than women do against men.
   Counter: Men also commit more crimes against men than they do on women, which means they also hate men. Men also commit more crimes against animal and children than the other way around. This logic means men hate everyone and everything.

3. Argument: Women have more reason to be scared of men because men attack women.
   Counter: Men attack more men than women, so men too should be scared of men.

Surely a more intelligent view of things is that men are more prone to violence than women. It doesn't equate to hating women.

There s a youngish guy where I work, who holds a couple of volunteer roles, and has promoted his own profile somewhat (no issue with this). I've never interacted with him, except about two years ago I popped a note on a blog he wrote saying something totally innocuous like "thank you for posting this".

He actively promotes support for men's mental health. Great. I've attended a few of our co wellbeing events on men's mental health (as well as many others). It's an extremely important issue.

Every time I see him in the office he literally sneers at me. I automatically smile an acknowledgment to anyone I walk past, most people either don't notice (momentary interaction) or smile/nod back. He sneers. It's very amusing.

He recently wrote to our head of HR complaining that many of the resources on the HR intranet were very female focused. I was a bit confused and concerned, so I checked. There are five external resources listed, one is specific to women, one is specific to men, the rest are neutral. I replied to the head of HR that we need to ask IT to look into why different links are showing for different people.

A colleague (male, if it matters) mentioned him to me the other day and said he gets an MRA whiff from him. I was relieved to know it's not just me who sees it.

But there is most definitely a subset of men who loathe women. I'd say men in their thirties loathing middle aged women is a definite thing. (There's another one who emails me nonsense all the time in the guise of "helpful suggestions", all weirdly slanted in favour of men, then when I point out that we already do that, or he has misinterpreted what he has sent as a suggestion [usually a link to some random publication], he then stops responding - more MRA whiffs).

While it’s a fact that men murder a lot more than women do, thousands to tens of thousands to one is orders of magnitude wrong. It’s about 11:1 or so.

Your perception is skewed. Why ?

I know it's a bit pointless responding but here goes:

Wayne Couzens and many other men have killed many women. This is not in any way comparable to the very rare cases of Lucy Letby and Beverley Ailitt but you know that (I hope.)

Your second point could well be true - the fact that men hate everything only supports the idea that men hate women, it doesn't counter it.

I don't really understand your third point. You said 'Women have more reason to be scared of men because men attack women' - more reason to be scared of men than what? More reason to be scared of men than scared of women?
It's true that men attack men more, and maybe men are scared of other men (I don't really know) but how is that relevant to whether women should be scared of men or not? I am genuinely confused on this one.

I wonder what the figures are for killings occurring as a result of self defence against an abusive partner (abused partner cornered yet again for another beating and grabs a knife sort of scenario) and whether those murders make up a majority (or significant minority) of cases for one sex or the other.

Go find out and let us know.

If I could do that, I would have posted that instead of posting my pondering wouldn't I? I did google and that information doesn't seem to be there. Hence my post saying I wonder what the figures are.

Oh, hang on. Here's something.
How the state criminalises women we would otherwise be burying (womensaid.org.uk)

Crikey. Returning to this thread to read some mindbending whataboutery, positing females as the predatory, violent half of humanity. And something about crazy dogs in alleyways.

Without critical thinking, safeguarding flies out of the window.