To think men just hate women?

[Justsomethoughts]

The more I think about it, the more I conclude that men must despise us. I think the news today about Wayne Couzens has got me pondering… My thoughts as follows:

Ive read so many threads on here about how little men contribute to household work.
Women are expected to do 99% of housework and childcare whilst sucking it up and looking pretty. This percentage doesn’t seem to change much if they also work. God forbid women complain (I refuse to use the word nag, a word only used by men when talking about women!) as they asked for a family and should be grateful they have a husband and children.

We should look visually appealing/maintain our appearance for as long as possible but not too much - that would be ‘asking for it’. If we don’t we will probably be replaced by a younger/more attractive model.

We can’t walk alone at night as we are at risk of harm (by men).

A very large proportion of female homicides are committed by males living with the victim

The list goes on and on. I know these aren’t brand new facts and obviously ‘not all men’ before people come for me but my god it’s so depressing when you think about it.

Well, when the consequences of women hating men are as disastrous as the consequences of men hating women are, so I know which I care about. Women may say mean things sometimes, but men do incredible damage while also saying mean things.

@Inthebitterend you will get posters bringing up Rose West and Scarlett Jenkins as examples of violent women, but they are exceptionally rare.
Don't even get me started on violent porn. I make my 19 year old DS do bi's own cooking and housework
I don't think he is misogynist
but is he watching awful porn? I don't know tbh.

I think often there’s a superficial impression of liking and respect. But scratch the surface a bit and it’s different.
I think many men don’t actually like women. I’d say several of my friends are with men like this .
And years ago I worked in a London office. All the managers were men, the way they talked about their wives with each other wasn’t nice at all. Contempt was one word I’d use.

I’m aware of this list, but my point still stands. As horrendous as the statistics are, they don’t show that a large proportion of men are murdering women.

My experience: a man close to me had the front of, Equal Rights for women! I am doing the child rearing/housework/cooking and holding down a full time job! No men in women's sports etc etc. But behind that was utter contempt, & he held views that I found appalling, like, all women are interested in is a man's money. When a couple gets divorced the woman automatically gets the house, the kids and will expect her ex to pay for her lifestyle. A man's position in the family is lesser than that of a woman's. Women shouldn't have short hair. Women shouldn't get equal pay because they are the weaker sex and take time off to have babies. So it was Yay, Equal Rights for women (Ts& Cs apply)

We split & he's already looking for another woman to put up with him.

Some men can't do without a woman in their life even though they hate the fact. They want sex and to be adored but they don't want to clear up after themselves or have the inconvenience of looking after one, or several, humans at once. They are the ones who want to be looked after. I find this truer as men get older. They don't want an equal partner they want someone to look after them.

My job is male-dominated and though most of the blokes I work with are not contemptuous of women, some are, and they are the ones I watch. I don't talk to them as much, and keep things less friendly. Sometimes when they've said something sexist or hateful about a woman I do call them out about it. They say stuff like, no need to get offended! Well yes, there is actually, because as Sarah Everard's killer proved, misogyny in words can lead to misogyny in actions.

Cherry picking might find the anomaly but the overwhelming evidence is under representation of women at the highest levels including just 5% of CEO’s in the global 500.

https://fortune.com/2022/08/03/female-ceos-global-500-thyssenkrupp-martina-merz-cvs-karen-lynch/

I think people just comment on posts (specifically regarding sharing of childcare/housework/mental load stuff) if they have something relevant to add, or can sympathise with an OP due to having the same experiences, so I don't really think social media is a good cross section to analyse.

As for wider issues, yes there are bad eggs out there that don't like women, but i'm sure there's an equal % of women who have contempt for men. The news outlets don't have stories on the majority of men who love and care for women, as that wouldn't be newsworthy... media loves a bad story and villains, so from a news point of view thats also a skewed cross section!

I stopped watching the news, and going on SM so much, and concentrate on the men in my life, who happen to be lovely... I'm much happier and less anxious as a result.

Yes, I have met a few wrong-uns by means of abuse in previous times, so I'm not under a 'sunshine and roses' bubble.
I just don't think sweeping generalisations and men-bashing is the way forward... same with race and ethnicity - let's stop widening the segregational gap on all accounts.

Just my own opinion, so don't come at me 😂

Justsomethoughts you said "It makes me happy hearing of MN examples where men are happily getting involved!" So I'm going to make you even happier

I am a 65 year old woman, disabled. I used to be a pretty good looking woman, not least when I married at age 38. I now have quite a good 'tache, wrinkles and thinning hair, I've gone a bit jowly and I'm beginning to get a scraggy neck. All those things that old women get, which I can't afford to do uch about. I'm also fatter with a bit of an apron and breasts which hang down almost to my waist. I am NOT attractive.

My dh, otoh is much sought after - he's a very takented and charismatic guitarist who plays pubs and clubs, frontman for the band which adds to his attraction. So yes, he could easily trade me in for a younger model and may well have been tempted to, who knows.

I have ms, I'm not going to get better, and I get worse, more debilitated andmore vulnerable with every year that goes by.

My dh does ALL the housework. He is also my ft carer, andbelieve me, sometimes that really is a ft job atm. Does he complain? No. He thinks of things that will make me happy, that will brighten my day, he brings me little treats. And he never complains when he hast to help me with even really intimate undignified and unpleasant tasks. He has shouldered the burden of me with care and with more love with every passing year.

He used to be a hell of a dick. He isn't now.

He doesn't hate women. I think he used to view us with a lot of learnt-in-childhood-entitlement and also quite a hefty portion of fear.

I think a lot of men have a subconscious fear of women because they need us more than they want to need us,

Your DH sounds lovely @Jux but you dont need to apologise for aging. I have also aged. As everyone is allowed to do.

That is shocking but sadly not surprising, yet another example of male advantage.
It is the sexism woven into every aspect of our lives that is exhausting. In my job, which is fairly male dominated, despite having years of experience, I have been advised by senior colleagues to contact men to explain the situation to me as my advice is not dependable as I am not in agreement with them- it can't possibly be that they are wrong. On one such occasion, a male colleague changed his advice on the basis of my challenges, offered it up as his opinion and months later got praised for having the very insight I was told at the outset was incorrect!

Other exhausting aspects of life, you are going about your business and some man will hang his head out the window and comment on your body, I was taking my DD to school in the summer and a guy in a van, wound down the window and commented on my cleavage being, 'nice'. I had a man around to fix something, I was in front of him and explained where the problem was, he commented, that what he could see from here was very nice, then did the equivalent of the tinkly laugh. Just get the job done, I don't want the hassle of your sexist remarks. Shockingly my DD at age 12 got remarks out the window from a passing car of late teenage boys. She is slight and not womanly, looks 12, even if she didn't it would be acceptable but she is a child! I have had much worse when younger but won't go into that; sadly we are in 2024 and I'm certain that things have not improved. I have a fairly young DD and I wonder what the future holds for her and other girls her age. As well as the blatant sexists, they seem to have the male commentators and their disciples now that feel aggrieved and are campaigning for the return of the stepford wife, worse are the women that agree with their rallying cry!

I think there is a fair bit of contempt and rage and I have had 4 awful experiences (husband DV, family member rape and a male stranger attacked me) where I have been on the sharp end of it. I still think about how the men who were doing it looked at me in those times and do you know, it was interesting because it wasn't the rage and hate I felt from them that got to me the most. I can kind of understand those emotions, I am pretty sure if someone hurt my DC I'd hate/rage at them. But it was the feeling that they were 100% sure I was less than them. That I simply mattered less than them.

I am not surprised most men feel women are less than them as on a structural level and system wise women are positioned as less - in health, in work, in financial needs, in voice, emotionally, physically and mentally we are seen as less. Less worthy of safety, less worthy of pain relief, less worthy of rest, less worthy of bodily autonomy, less worthy of qualifications and top level jobs, less worthy of research into health conditions that only impact us, less worthy of being listened to, less worthy of justice. It's a lethal position to see us as less but it's ingrained.

Indeed. One thing I'd like to see the people who don't think this is the case explain is, if men don't hate women, how bad would it be if they did? Is it impossible to believe that men hate women while some of us remain unmurdered?

Unlike men, women are in touch with embodied visceral experiences from an early age - connected to material reality and aware of the dynamics and vulnerabilities of being human. Men literally don’t need to think about ‘life on life’s terms’ to the same extent, so their field of awareness is low.

Men with the humility and willingness to evolve often need reminding that it’s about being proactive beyond the cosiness of home. It’s not enough to have a part-time conscience about injustices toward 51% of the population.

William Golding (Lord of the Flies) “I think women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men; they are far superior and always have been.” Indeed 😆

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Yes.

Brilliant.

I have never read a post i disagree with more. All my male friends and family share responsibility for household chores and care. Some of my friends are stay at home dads

Why do you think they hate women?

Yes nearly everyone will know a decent man/men but as a class, yes they hate us or at least have contempt for us that they are probably barely conscious of. And lots of men view women they are related to or in relationships very differently to how they view other women.

Spectacularly missing the point. A PP blamed men for awarding a “woman of the year” prize to a transwoman. I pointed out that the jury was 10 women to 2 men.

men will always aim to be “top dog” and see everyone and everything as a competition
@MrsMurphyIWish I agree with this. In days of yore when it was a given that all women would automatically defer to them that meant they only had other men to compete with. Hence the massive pushback when women start wanting to be treated as full humans just like men, even if he felt less than other men at least he could feel superior to all women.
Sorry fellas the Genie is out of the bottle and she ain't going back in🧞‍♀️

If, as OP states, women are expected to do 99% of the childcare...

What kind of arseholes are these women raising?

Nope sorry can't let this one go. 😂
Historically in the UK a billion referred to 1 million million. Although I understand that we have now started to use the American designation of 1 thousand million. No idea why.

I looked it up because I always thought it was 1 million million. Turns out I was half right 😂

Official stats estimate approximately 800 million videos on YouTube. Not "billions"

When Sarah Everard was murdered a guy I work with, who I've always thought was one of the good guys said 'What was she doing out at night?'.

Yes it's true that women do most of the child care, but boys identify with, look up to and want to emulate men. The fact that they see women doing menial work makes them want to be like the men, who don't do menial work, the ones who have power and status, who are able to work everything to their advantage.

How daft.
Believe me, I chose to be single and celibate for quite a long time!
But then, a proposal came of a marriage so lucrative, no need for me to have kids, either,
I simply couldn't refuse!
And here I am, 20 years on, not giving many f*s.
😊
One of them, are you?

Hahaha THIS!