Toilet training before school

[jackass232]

I saw a piece on the news last night about how there's been a big rise in the number of children starting school not fully toilet trained. I think the figures were something like 13% of kids in any reception class are not fully trained and that teachers are on average spending 2.5 hours per day dealing with toileting accidents and issues.

Obviously this is quite shocking (I expected to see a MN post about it actually, sorry if I missed one) but I can sympathise as my ds started reception with issues surrounding pooing - mostly holding onto it, becoming constipated and having leaks. I remember always packing spare pants for him and I know the TA had to help him change a lot. This wasn't anything to do with laziness on my part. He was just hard to toilet train and continued with these issues for quite some years. The school was always lovey about it but I felt very embarrassed and upset on behalf of my son.

I feel the general narrative behind this story is that parents just can't be arsed to toilet train their kids and are happily sending them in and letting teachers deal with them. But that's not always the case. I know it's a big drain on schools but what's the answer? And why has there been such a rise?

I was discussing this only this morning with the head of the small village school where I'm a governor. She pointed puy out that they just don't have the staffing to be changing nappies on a regular basis and it's vital that the children start school - even EY - toilet trained.

They are more capable than you think

I know how capable he is. He's amazing at some things. A bit delayed at others. Like most two year olds, I would guess.

We're going to do it in the summer, when he's two and a half, in line with what all my peers are doing. Shock horror, I know!

Why is it not their responsibility?
Because it's too much effort.

I've got friends who work in nurseries who can recall parents asking nursery staff when they (as in nursery) start potty training the children!
Other tales include nursery gently suggesting that the preschool child has shown an interest in using the potty because they've seen their friends doing it, and the parents shutting it down because 'they're not old enough, well they haven't shown an interest to me, people don't just have days to sit at home and potty train, we don't want to have accidents because that would upset the child' etc.

I've heard similar tales from people teaching reception about skills that (SEND aside) would have been normal having to he taught by schools such as how to sit at a table to eat, how to remove a coat and put it on the coat peg, how to take a jumper on and off etc. Some children aren't being taught these things.

13% of reception classes are not ND.

More likely affected by the 'when they're ready' mentality and the trend of 'kind' parenting.

There will legitimately some parents who didn't push it because the child 'said they didn't want to'.

I agree with her tbh

I have three friends whose childcare settings, clearly frustrated by a lack of effort from the parents, have begun training in their setting. One friend in particular told me nursery had her child in pants all week only for her to put a pull up on at the weekend when he had had an accident. She also only trained her eldest because nursery told her he would be in nappies at school if she didn’t start.

A second friend happily admitted she couldn’t be bothered and was delighted when her childminder took charge.

The third describes her child as “trained in nursery” because she doesn’t attempt to continue at home. 🤦‍♀️

i was a child in the 90’s so can’t comment on the change of attitude. But these scenarios are so frustating! None of these kids have SEN.

Well exactly there was one child at my older sons primary school who was in nappies in reception he had global development delayand an EHCP
My youngest went to the same school nursery in nappies ,he's severely autistic non verbal and has been in a special school since reception

The papers who do these articles leave out an awful lot of details
It's hard working having an older child in nappies ,plus you get a lot of judgement why anyone would think parents just can be bothered toilet training them is beyond me.

I 100% agree with that. DS is also at a small village school and all parents are told before the child starts in reception that they won't be able to attend if not trained.

Of course, there are children with ND diagnosis/developmental delays/emotional issues etc and these are treated differently, obviously. In those cases, there is usually GP involvement and it's a case of everyone pulling together for the child.

It just cannot be acceptable to allow 10%+ of 4-5 year olds to enter a mainstream school if they're not toilet trained, though. Schools are on their knees, funding wise. TAs are getting thinner and thinner on the ground, SEN 'departments' are now often one person over several schools in an academy and teachers need to teach.

There isn't the staffing, and even if there was, school staff shouldn't have to deal with this.

How do you know?
Many SEN are not apparent until a child is much older
My nearly 14 year old didn't have a diagnosis until three he still severely autistic.

I don't think it's bad or lazy parenting.

As a society there is no time and there no one at home.

Because you literally just said "If your child is over 20 months then you are doing him a disservice."

Yes, they should be toilet trained before school. Why should the teachers waste their time changing them? If the parents are too busy/lazy to potty train their own kids then they shouldn’t have them.

I want to be sympathetic but I have been told by several parents that they are delaying potty training until after 3 as they are too busy. I’m never really sure how to respond to that without being insulting (am I not busy!?).

I thought my son was lat at 2&3/4 but had waited for the summer.

I don’t know they don’t have any underlying SEN. But they are hitting developmental milestones and I know that the parents reason for not training them is not a lack of ability but a lack of motivation. They can perform every other age appropriate task.

I can tell this is a sore topic for you, I am not speaking about children with SEN or GDD or whatever else. I accept that for some children it is not a choice. But disagree that for many it isn’t. I have a family member who is 14 and in nappies and GDD. I am not ignorant to the challenges children with SEN face. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t a LOT of parents who are simply delaying for convenience. The presence of children with disabilities doesn’t cancel out lazy parenting.

We started potty training our 2 year old at Christmas. She seemed to take to it ok but I feel like she took a step backwards when she went back into nursery. I don’t know how much they enforce it because now she is refusing to use potty. My husband and I both work, so we only have evenings and weekends to work with. I have Easter week off to try again because I know it’s the parents job, but we won’t be able to try again properly until the summer if it doesn’t work.

So many judgemental posters on this thread.

Also takes resources from other children who are there to learn.

Totally agree. I had a 3 year old move into my glass in the late 90s, daycare staff sent me a bag of nappies. I didn't need them, i told the little one he was going into big boy pants, showed him the toilets and made him a sticker chart, not one accident. He was so proud of himself. Mother was just too bone idle to do the job.

I also have seen this quoted but I wonder what the actual question was and how it was worded - 50% seems extremely low if you're assuming they mean "nah, can't be arsed with that, someone else will do it for me".

But less low if they mean something like: it's half my responsibility, and half my partner's, or I accept that I have control over some parts of the potty training process, but some parts are outside of my control.

How you'd answer would totally depend on how the question was worded.

As a teacher, I don’t disagree. Schools are not allowed to refuse children from starting if their parents haven’t toilet trained them, though-it’s the law.

Years ago I worked with someone who claimed she never had a dirty nappy. Presumably she held a newborn baby over a potty. I didn’t believe her. Toilet training definitely later. One parent said she didn’t want to start training in case the child wet the furniture. It used to be unusual to have a child in nappies in the nursery unless they had additional or special needs. Yes plenty of accidents. Now it is more common to have nappies. I retired 3 years ago and guess it hasn’t improved.

I’ve been thinking about this. Both me and my partner have to work full time to be able to keep our heads above water and survive. Unless I take a week off work solely to nappy train there’s no chance for me to get it done. I have zero intention of leaving it until school age for my child’s sake, but it’s actually hard to just fit it in!!

It's quite simple. If child isn't toilet trained, they are sent home until they are. In France/Belgium where kids start school from 2.5 years they are toilet trained or else they are not accepted. The reason they can go to school at that age (with pre/post wrap around care) is because both parents work so lack of time is bollocks.