Toilet training before school

[jackass232]

I saw a piece on the news last night about how there's been a big rise in the number of children starting school not fully toilet trained. I think the figures were something like 13% of kids in any reception class are not fully trained and that teachers are on average spending 2.5 hours per day dealing with toileting accidents and issues.

Obviously this is quite shocking (I expected to see a MN post about it actually, sorry if I missed one) but I can sympathise as my ds started reception with issues surrounding pooing - mostly holding onto it, becoming constipated and having leaks. I remember always packing spare pants for him and I know the TA had to help him change a lot. This wasn't anything to do with laziness on my part. He was just hard to toilet train and continued with these issues for quite some years. The school was always lovey about it but I felt very embarrassed and upset on behalf of my son.

I feel the general narrative behind this story is that parents just can't be arsed to toilet train their kids and are happily sending them in and letting teachers deal with them. But that's not always the case. I know it's a big drain on schools but what's the answer? And why has there been such a rise?

Laziness. Pure laziness.

@AngelinaFibres can I ask do you know why some children came straight from home to school without going through some sort of preschool? Did you notice a pattern, certain types of parents /cultures/socio-economic groups? I'm just curious. I teach preschool, but not in UK.

Each parent gets six weeks off a year.

And many workplaces put limits on how that holiday is used, ie only a week or two at a time. And many parents of nursery age children need to hang on to holiday for illness.

Perhaps it's a confidence issue for some dps to keep going with it

These excuses just don't stack up. Working parents are perfectly able to perform the basic parenting task of toilet training their child.

I agree. I’ve worked all the time I’ve been a parent of 3 boys. Each of them has been out of nappies before the age of 3. Yes I’m sure I did have to use annual leave, and yes it was hard work, but that’s just being a parent isn’t it?

@LordSnot only with the support of childcare providers. Not all children get it in a few days. Some take a long time no matter when you start.

Fortunately mine potty trained within a couple of days as we waited until she was ready AND we had a supportive nursery.

But it would have been difficult to manage using annual leave if it had taken longer or nursery hadn't been supportive.
Annual leave is four weeks plus bank holidays, so how many people can afford to use up half or more of their annual leave just doing potty training whilst also keeping some to cover illness?
My workplace insists on leave booking far in advance - so you could easily book a week or two to potty train intending to make the most of warmer weather, nappy free out in the garden etc and find instead you've got a week or two of freezing fog and downpours plus a child with D&V.

As it was, mine was 'ready' in January, so we potty trained very quickly in January, which wasn't how I'd have imagined planning to do it!

Moving between childcare providers is a big one. I know lots of working parents whose children go to A nursery/ childminder for a couple of days, grandparents for 1 day, mum day off Thurs, dad day off Friday. All these people need to be consistent to help with potty training. That in some cases requires all nursery staff, 4 grandparents, mum and dad to all be doing the same.

I really do think the health visitor service needs to be doing more in regards to potty training workshops and supporting parents to potty train younger. As I said upthread, I've approached 3 different HVs about potty training a child at 2 and every time told my DD is very young.

Same with day nurseries. Many have a huge staffing problem at the moment I know, but requiring children to be pretty much dry after a week of training is an impossible ask for some children. Asking for children to be 90% dry or nappies means it is kicking the can down the road.

We also need to think about nappy technology. 30 years ago most children were in reusable nappies of some kind Terry's/cloth/flats. Disposables were expensive. I cloth nappied my DD at home and from 20 months she was telling me she had done a wee and wanted changing whenever she was in a reusable. Even with modern cloth nappies, they feel wet. We used disposables for out and about and visiting friends and family. She only ever asked to be changed or told me she did a wee in a disposable when it was bulging. Disposable nappy technology is very good now. This means children don't feel wet so are not getting those signals as early.

Wow. In the country where I live kids are expected to be toilet trained to go to government preschool (age 3). Mine was the very youngest in the year and started preschool at age 2 and 9 months, and I was required basically to toilet train him in the first half term holiday or withdraw him. He was considered very very late to train and was the only kid in the class of 30 who wasn’t trained yet, and it’s rare for kids to have accidents. I know that some kids take their time (mine did, our first attempt at age 2 failed as he got stressed and started to withhold pee for hours at a time) but aside major developmental issues it’s surprising to me that a significant number of kids are training so much later in the UK.

30 years ago my dd was in pampers. I had Terry nappies ready but it wasn't doable

The disposables were good even then but she was toilet trained at around 2

I found a lot of people who had toddlers that were "trained early" had to take a potty everywhere and sit the kid on it wherever they were. Or they'd have lots of wet/soiled pants. I don't consider that potty trained. Mine were coming up to 3 but they pretty much just stopped wearing nappies, no training as such needed. They are ND, maybe it would have been younger if not.

Increasingly, schools don’t have the funds for a full time TA in Reception.

For a single handed Reception teacher with a class of 30, every extra child to change/clean up from an accident decreases the amount of time spent on the other children’s learning.

I think you need to go back 40 years to the 80s when most pre-school kids were in terry squares, with SAHMs.

By the 90s it was working mums, kids in nurseries and disposables.
Working mums don't have time to be washing bucket fulls of nappies. And disposables are much easier for nurseries.

And obviously that wasn't something that changed overnight, it would have been a gradual change.

I think their might be an element of working mums, poor potty training advice, parents expecting overnight sucess.

I also think in the 90s kids drank less. The constant sipping water. Must mean they need the toilet more.

I also think some of it has to be children with additional needs who would have been placed in special schools being placed in mainstream.

Govermnent need to be more honest with the statistics they are giving out.
What percentage of NT children is it who are actually in nappies ?
What percentage are having odd accidents?
What percentage need help to wipe?
What percentage need help with awkward clothing - tights?

What percentage don't like the school toilets so just avoid using them?

More research needs to be done before blaming it all on parents.

I totally agree they shouldn't have to change children as they should all be toilet trained but they are not so therefore the adult in the room has to deal with it.

I agree that they should be trained but if they aren’t and need to be at school then obviously they need to be changed. I don’t agree that its realistic to expect a solitary teacher to have to meet the same ‘Ofstedly unrealistic’ (I know that’s not a real phrase but teachers will know what I mean) expectations than if they weren’t toilet training 3-5 out of 30 children.

Fine, it needs to be done, but something will need to give and it’s not fair if that’s the teacher’s mental wellbeing because they are expected to ‘do it all’.

Totally disagree. Teachers should not have to be changing nappies unless it’s a documented SEND situation.

I think it has a lot to do with disposable nappies being more comfortable, and easier to change. Non-disposables or knickers/pants give the child a sensation of being wet and uncomfortable and so more incentive to use a potty/toilet.

@DrCoconut I disagree. Most kids used to be reliably toilet trained before 3. People do sometimes take portable potties though as public toilets have become scarce and toddlers can rarely wait 45 minutes from telling you they need the toilet, to actually going. Not all adults can manage it either.

Our wonderful Reception outside learning space is being used less and less as there must be an adult out there with the children full time and increasingly that adult is dealing with changing children or clearing up after accidents.

Not at all surprised . I had a colleague that transported her 4.5 yo, no health issues, daughter in a pushchair and still had her in nappies until a month before beginning Reception when I told her thatall that she was doing was raising a lazy daughter who would more than likely get bullied once she started school, because that's just the sort of things that other kids pick up on.

I think she means parents who do pants for half a day then fancy a shopping trip so nappy then pants for a bit then go out and say wee in the pull up etc.

I'm a childminder kids can be dry on a day but come in pull ups or nappies and parents want nappies to go home come Monday they are back to stage one as we were out all weekend or too busy. You can't do that

I only take a potty if we're out for the day a potty trained child can go an hour or more how often are you away from a toilet for that long?

@jannier the public toilets where I am have been closed. Most cafes do not let you use the toilet without a purchase. The only places we can reliably go are a Weatherspoons or large pub, or a McDonalds. The only department store left in the City I live in is John Lewis. Department stores used to be reliable sources of toilets.
I do not always want to buy drinks just so we can use a toilet.