My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

I agree

I'd be furious if I was her. I wouldn't want any of my children to play rugby.

But if it came down to not being able to have a relationship with my son, I would pick seeing my son.

Yes, they can’t do contact training outside the season - so no contact training over the summer (May bank holiday onwards until beginning of September). They train doing contact during the season only, it’s to give everyone a rest

And nor was the father or son given any choice!

Here’s a helpful infographic for you that took two seconds to google. If you need help understanding the terms I’m sure some of us can help explain. Wales rules are very similar, if not stricter. Can’t speak for Scotland.

https://www.englandrugby.com//dxdam/d5/d5e57ff9-0b35-4bf3-8492-94c5eb90968c/Age_Grade_Flyer_Update_V4.pdf

@Trickleg I think they have confused full contact as referring to adult contact/adult rugby.

As opposed to how you or I would differentiate contact vs non contact with the knowledge that with each banding the involvement in rucks, scrums and tackle heights etc naturally change.

The OP has already said they don't know much about the sport and the compromise was non-contact so it's clear enough they don't mean the boy is playing adult rugby.

This is such a difficult one.

We are not from a rugby background but we chose to send DS to a private school (courtesy of DGPs) where rugby is a big deal. We always knew that rugby was likely to feature by choosing to send him there.

DS is pretty good at it and DH did spend a lot of time worrying about it when they moved from touch to contact rugby, citing various reports about accidents and brain injuries that were possible.

I must admit I struggle to watch the matches as I'm so worried about DS or indeed anyone else getting hurt - they rarely do, but it does look like a very physical game.

But the thing is DS 17 willingly gets out of bed at 6am two days a week for training and sometimes three depending on game times. His team made it to the under 18 school finals and he played for the last 8 minutes on the pitch at Murrayfield ( he's a sub not one of the superstars). The rugby team have great camaraderie and also a reasonably good study ethic and he has managed to get an offer to the uni of his choice. We couldn't take that away from him, and one has to weigh the small risk of serious injury against the positive benefits of sport and being in a team. They also have good protocols for head injuries and a neighbours son was very miffed he wasn't allowed to play for 2 weeks after a head injury.

I think the DM was naive in expecting a sporty boy to go to a school with rugby on the agenda and for him not to play it properly. I also think your DB was duplicitous and should have let her know properly a long time ago.

I think now the important thing is that Dnephew wants to play. Maybe DB could write an email apologising for not telling the DM, but saying it was very much what DNephew wanted to do. He should also fully fall on his sword and say that he takes all responsibility for this, but the bottom line is Dnephew wants to play.

yes I think we are all agreeing here (and I’m very familiar with that infographic but thanks for sharing). Is he playing adult rugby, no. Is he playing contact rugby yes. I was wrong about when it goes 15 a side though, it’s u14.

Why should mums decision about this override dads ? They are both parents but dad is the only one who has taken a full, active interest in ALL aspects of his son’s schooling and activities. This has been going on for over two years, mum has never attended a single rugby match, hasn’t read her emails and can’t have interacted with the school in any great detail to have only found out about this now. That isn’t being ‘scatty’, it’s being completely disinterested in a large part of her son’s life.

Yet they still made the final decision

I’d say at this age, it’s his choice. Your BIL was in a difficult situation. But to be fair, from the school point of view they did email her and it’s not their problem (or your BIL) if she doesn’t read them. I am disorganised with emails (you should see how many unread I have…) but I read every one of the school emails! And if I did miss one, I wouldn’t blame the school.

If they’re both contacting you, it’s worth reminding your SIL that her son is 13/14 and wants to play contact rugby. He’s old enough to make his own choices about school sports and she’s going to just have to get comfortable with the fact that growing up means they can and will make choices you would not have made (on their behalf).

It’s not good that her DS and your brother have lied to her for 2 years about it. But, equally, has she been willing to actually listen to her son.

On the list of stuff teens might do and lie to you about, electing for contact rugby is low down the list of shit to worry about.

The fact that she's ok with with skiing speaks volumes. It's really all about her isn't it?

It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.
How recently is 'recently'? It seems a bit late in the season to be appointing captains.

Oh blimey! Your poor poor SIL. She's been put into an untenable situation where its lose lose for her.

My youngest goes to a private school and is in the same year as your nephew. Being captain of an A team EVEN involves wearing a school jumper with a special colour around the collar that marks them out as 'excellent'. The whole school will visibly see the A team captains and for his mother to remove him will destroy his relationship with her.

Equally how dare your DB put her in this awful position. If you've never had a child attend a private school you would be oblivious to the emphasis private schools place on being leaders in disciplines so my daughter is passionate about drama etc and yes should she excel she'll end up with a 'special strip' representing excelling in the arts jumper.

I feel you'll get your head bitten off with either parent. Instead I would focus on very carefully and gently explaining to your nephew (this needs to be done very slowly - like over a year or more) how you will never agree with what your DB did to HIS mother. At the moment he will feel outrage at what she's threatening to do and be rightly incredibly defensive. He will not see how he has been manipulated. The best thing you can do is to gently and in as non confrontational manner as possible explain how your DB has persuaded him to lie to his mother. I'd start with simply repeating the statement that whilst you are incredibly proud of his success and skill at rugby you're angry with DB. Do not go further than that until his anger has started to reduce. You need to be a safe person to talk to so focus on those two elements first - that you're incredibly proud of his prowess at rugby but disappointed with how your brother treated his mother. Don't be drawn until he starts to calm down (this is likely to be months)!. DONT RUSH IT or FORCE conversations. He needs to know that you're on his side, a safe person to talk to and if you manage that then he will eventually listen to you.

Good luck.

Why the comparison to skiing? Skiing isn't a contact sport. Any sport when it goes wrong can be deadly. But rugby actually involves making physical contact with other people. Often more than one. A relevant comparison would be boxing. I doubt many mothers would be keen on their young children being punched in the face.

@HollyKnight or football, where the head is used as a tool.

Footballs kicked high and hard are headed with alarming regularity. And they don't take concussion seriously.

If a rugby player had a head impact at the severity of a header in football they would be removed.

Rugby is nothing like boxing.

Hitting someone in the face is illegal in rugby as is tackling around the neck.

I get the feeling that the Ex SiL isn't being entirely honest.