My brother has hidden my nephews rugby playing...

[touchrugby]

Asking for my brother - I think he’s in a mess and I need to tell him what to expect and how unreasonable he was. Interested to hear from other divorced parents and sports teachers/ school administrators. I’ve tried to give as much context as possible.

My brother got divorced 4 years ago. They have (had?) an amicable coparent relationship- there was no cheating or unkindness in either side. My brother just became obsessed with giving his family a good life and he worked a lot of hours. When he wasn’t working he was a very engaged parent- my nephew is hugely sporty and they were always off doing sports- swimming, tennis, football, cross country etc. Ex SIL was a SAHP but eventually got frustrated (with justification) at never seeing her husband so went back to work and divorced him. They share 50/50 custody with my brother as the higher earner paying all DNs expenses.

My brother really wanted nephew to go to this very nice private school. To facilitate this he pays all the fees. It’s a great academic school so ex SIL was pretty happy-except for the sport. They’re a big rugby school and she was adamant that DN not play rugby due to injury risks. There was a big argument about it, with my brother and DN really wanting rugby, and her adamant that he wouldn’t play.

The school offers non contact rugby and eventually they agreed DN would do that. DN is in year 9 now and it’s recently come out that he switched to full contact rugby in the 3rd week of year 7 and SIL didn’t know. It’s come out because he’s recently been made captain of the A team and a few mums congratulated her.

It seems he hated the non contact team. He’s very gifted with sport and apparently it was a team of lads who just wanted to run around for a few hours and throw a ball. The school put little effort into it and there were no matches. He asked to switch to “proper” rugby and the school said they needed a parent to approve it- and my brother did.

His argument is that his son wanted it, the school did email SIL as well, and it’s been 2.5 years.
Her argument is that he knew her stance, he also knows she’s a bit disorganised and rarely reads emails especially ones about sport which she know my brother manages (she has over 10,000 unread emails on her phone!) and that my brother conspired to hide it.

She has a very valid point about the conspiring. She has a new partner. He works Saturdays so my brother used to have DN every Friday night so they could see each other, and he’d then take him to Sat morning matches before dropping him at SILs Sat evening. Brother and DN have both, in 2.5 years, managed not to say anything to her about his rugby which is obviously duplicitous, especially considering how good he is. Brother just managed all the kit and the washing and the games and it apparently never came up in conversation.

Shes utterly furious and is going to the school Monday to tell them to remove him from rugby. Brother planning on going to the school to tell them to keep him in rugby. DN is apparently going to refuse to return to his mums house unless she agrees to the rugby and is determined to continue.

I’ve maintained a good friendship with SIL. In many ways I’m closer her than my brother as I see her more (he’s still a workaholic in his non parenting time so he’s hard to get hold of!) I heard about the odd match but nothing specific, I assumed it was non contact and frankly don’t know anything about rugby anyway. She’s very unhappy with our family as obviously our parents knew as well. My dad watches half the matches!

Does anyone know what the school might do? My brother and nephew are digging their heels in and saying he’ll live full time at my brothers and my brother will therefore get full parental responsibility. I think this is rubbish and not legal. I am worried that a nice coparenting relationship is ruined and that SIL might lose my nephew. He loves his mum but he’s obsessed with sport and apparently A team captain at a school like his is a BIG deal. He’s already playing some 2nd eleven matches as well which is also apparently important. I don’t know how to feel about what my brother did. He has absolutely supported what DN wanted. My nephew is so happy playing rugby and so good at it and still uninjured, and it’s the game played by 90% of the school. She knew sending him there that if he didn’t play rugby he’d be a bit isolated but she will not have it.

Frankly I think there’s fault on both sides, but on balance how much more unreasonable was my brother and what the hell might happen next?

Private schools post training and games on their SOCS websites which his mum would have access to, a lot of schools post all other co-curricular activities and requirements there also so doubt very much unless she takes zero interest in any of his daily activities (sport, music etc) that she wasn't aware..... bruises, stud marks etc are par for the course in rugby and unavoidable to see to any semi observant parent.....

Perhaps she didn't an email about rugby as she trusted her ex/son to tell her about anything important?

Perhaps the relationship between her & her son is already pretty shit if he has hidden this from her for more than 2yrs?

He must be totally convinced that she would be furious or able to stop him somehow.

She needs to not go to the school!

I agree with the point about the mental load. She assumed DB was managing "sport"- as indeed he was. I said earlier in that I felt they played to their strengths- I'm pretty certain that SIL manages other aspects of his life more than DB. The thing is, she copies him in on emails about music lessons or drama costumes. My DB didn't reciprocate.

I'm very upset with him and think he's been an arse, although I'm also upset with SIL for not paying attention, missing a chunk of her sons life and digging her heels in about rugby. I've heard everyone's concerns about injuries and I do get it but I am more pro rugby than not and I can't understand the refusal to consider it.

I come from a big rugby family. (don’t watch it personally) There are lots of pros, as with any sport, but my bro did lose a young teammate on the pitch in a horrific accident so I can see both sides. Some sports are more dangerous than others.

Funny how her not absolving herself of an aspect of her kid's life is excused, getting involved with the bits she likes and her accumulating thousands of emails is described as just being a bit scatty. She's been informed of this for more than two years. Your DB according to you takes an active part in the arts stuff that he does not understand so what's her excuse -just being a bit scatty?

There is a lot of fault on both sides (& the DB is also to be equally criticised) and in the way it's been handled now. But your bias and obvious preference for the mum means you should not be involved at all. Stay out of it.

Perhaps she didn't an email about rugby as she trusted her ex/son to tell her about anything important?

I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't put my trust about rugby in an 11yo boy or an ex-partner who fundamentally disagreed with me about how our child should play it.

The thing is, she copies him in on emails about music lessons or drama costumes. My DB didn't reciprocate.

How does she know if she doesn't read her e-mails?

Rugby is a contact sport!

If he wants to play it, let him, especially if he has a talent for it.

Boys used to get KO’d on Rugby field, but it’s think now head protection can be worn?

Your DB acted disgracefully, encouraging the boy to play rugby against Mum's wishes, other family colluding to keep it secret from her, trying to hold her over a barrell suggesting boy can live with him FT and cut off Mum if she doesn't fall into line

This is appalling

"Funny how her not absolving" - do not know why I typed a not in there. Typo.

If all other aspects co-parenting were going well, if I were in S-i-L's position, there is no way I would even imagine that I couldn't trust my ex and my son not to tell me the truth about playing my son playing rugby. Why would I even think they would go behind my back like this? As far as this mother was concerned, she had made her position clear and they had reached a compromise as a family. She oversees all the other aspects of school life and leaves the sport to her ex.

I find it odd our school also uses SOCS so it’s pretty clear what your kids are up to!

Yes injuries can occur in any sport - but they don't occur with the same liklihood do they. That is obvious.

My question remains. If the child has a serious head injury or is paralysed is the father willing to leave his job and spend the rest of his life caring for him - or will this be left to mum?

Yes they do, i personally know of 2 children who have become disabled due to football, one broke his neck and is paralysed from the shoulders down and the prognosis is that he won’t recover even after a 10 hour surgery, another child lost his leg due to a bad tackle.

So you'd ignore all communication from the school, never read any sports-related e-mails and never attend any of your son's sports games because you were off spending with your boyfriend? For two and a half years?

Because that's exactly what happened here. Which is pretty piss-poor parenting in my eyes.

If a man came on to say that he didn't know his son was doing X because he never read his e-mails and was too busy going off to see his girlfriend every weekend, he would be absolutely lambasted, and rightly so!

Rugby is officially dangerous and unnecessary, so when parents don't agree, no rugby, simple as that.

Your brother is totally in the wrong about it - if the son is sporty, he could have excelled easily in something else.

Here's what db should say if he can: I'm so sorry I covered up what was happening, it was a shitty and dishonest thing to do. I think I was trying too hard to be liked by him and encourage his talent but i went too far in hiding this from you. I desperately want to make this right and make sure he carries on having a good relationship with us both. Can we talk to him together so he knows I also think what we did was wrong. Then maybe we could talk to school and maybe a mediator to find a way forward together.

Your sil created this situation when she put in a rule without listening and then failed to stay involved in what's clearly a vital aspect of your nephew's life and character. I'm sure she feels crap, she should. She's at risk of losing her relationship with her son because she thought she could control him. That's NOT parenting. She needs to carrot what's done is done and let it go. He's going to do loads of stuff she doesn't like. That's life. Your brother at least is encouraging and supporting his child to be who he is. I'd be telling her to get a grip pronto if I were you.

That's not how it works at school, though, especially when we're talking about a sport that's part of the normal curriculum.

If one parent gives permission and the other parent doesn't say anything either way then they will assume it's okay.

When my private school sent permission forms home for various things, only one parent signature was required.

The pros and cons of rugby aside, your brother has totally undermined your SIL's authority and their co-parenting arrangement to the point that their son is seriously thinking of cutting his mother out of his life when, by own account, she is an excellent mother.

That is wrong on so many levels.

A lot if people are missing the point that this isn't just about whether it's reasonable for a child to play rugby. This is about one parent deliberately undermining the other, and encouraging a child to lie to their parent

SIL may never trust DB again. And that's on him, entirely

Yes. Because I would never in a million years expect my ex and my son to deliberately hide this aspect of things from me, knowing how I felt about it. Apparently the father deliberately kept this a secret, even to the extent of making sure he looked after his son on regular sports days, and looking after all his sports kit and also encouraging his son to lie by omission. That is absolutely disgraceful behaviour by the father. The mother had stated her lack of interest in sports and (foolishly, as she now knows) expected that her ex would supervise responsibly. Which he clearly didn't.

Look, what's done is done. It almost doesn't matter who's in the wrong now. The reality is your DN will continue playing rugby. But how to move forward?

SIL needs a route to accept this without feeling like she's losing too much face. More understanding of the sport/discussion with the school etc, so she can say OK, without feeling like she's just given in to (frankly awful) threats that DN will just up and leave.

BIL (and DN) need to show significant contrition, and beg for forgiveness.

If you want to involve yourself to help (and that is a choice, OP) I'd suggest emphasising their common goals - they both want DN to be safe and happy and successful, the both want their coparenting to work, they both want DN to have a happy relationship with both of them. Regardless of fault or blame, this is true. Losing the current cooperative coparenting setup would be detrimental to absolutely everyone. Again, regardless of fault or blame, this is true. You can be of help by repeatedly emphasising this - trying to help them out of their entrenched positions of blame and recrimination and towards a common aim - which they do actually share, even if it doesn't feel like it now.

But when the child is with the father, she has no authority.

Agree they should not have undermined her, however they are past this point and she can’t bury her head in the sand in the things she’s not interested in regarding her son.

I think it’s too late now to change your DN’s mind about this.
He is already well into rugby, is brilliant and successful, so much so that he is captain of his team in a school famous for rugby. It will be his whole world for now. I can’t imagine how scatty his mum must be nit to have realised his passion.
And of course, it’s his opinion that counts at that age. It would be cruel to stop him or remove him from the school where he has made a name for himself as if his feelings count for nothing.

Both parents at fault of course, your DB for his duplicity, and your DSIL for not paying attention and for allowing him to attend a rugby school in the first place if she didn’t want him to play.
But it makes no difference now, so no point looking for blame.

SIL risks losing her son over this if she digs her heels in. She needs to talk to the school and ask about their rugby safety protocols and talk to them about her fears. They may be able to reassure her to some small extent.
I can’t see DN giving up his ruby now. He will continue to play, one way or another, with or without his mother’s blessing. Better for him to play for a first rate rugby school and a reputable club with good protocols (which he seems capable of) than anything other school/club.

I absolutely would not want my 14 year planning contact rugby. The brain damage data is utterly damning and doesn't need you to be knocked out or have concussions to have an iterative, serious impact.

So I must admit my sympathy lies with your SIL. She shouldn't have to check up on the few areas that your DB is supposed to be managing. He knew her feelings (based on good evidence) and he intentionally overrode them and lied about it.

DN can choose to live with DB but not sure if I was the school I would allow DN to continue playing against the express wishes of one parent. I guess it depends on school policy.