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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

635 replies

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:36

lovelysoap · 24/02/2024 10:08

I think mum is focusing on the tights issue to avoid the real issue. Children are only taken into foster care as a very last resort. There is a huge lack of foster care spaces and they only go to the children most at risk of immediate serious harm and when there are no other suitable family members who are even able to care for the child on a temporary basis. Things generally need to be rock bottom for a child to be in foster care and not even dad or any of dads extended family or friends can care for the child. Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

i think that it is understandable that the family will focus on a small issue about the foster carer which is easier than facing up tot he very difficult reality that they cant keep a child safe despite social workers trying to work with them to keep the child safe for a long time.

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

I would say cancer is pretty rock bottom. No, mum still has parental responsibility.

SWs have worked with us for a long time to keep the DC safe? What are you even talking about??

His mum is having treatment. What more can she do? And we are focusing on the needs of the child not to be miserable and uncomfortable!

We are facing up to the cancer. What work do you suggest we do with the FC and SW that will help get rid of it?? 😞

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:37

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:09

Right, so as well as the mother being bad for having cancer, the op is a bad aunty for having 2 disabled children and not having the capacity to parent a third?

Show quote history

Yep...some people seem to enjoy kicking others when they are down.

OP posts:
CecilyP · 24/02/2024 12:41

Lucytheloose · 24/02/2024 12:07

You seem very over-invested in what someone else's child wears. And no, it won't turn him gay.

Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse, it gets worse!

Thank goodness OP is just a friend of the boy’s mum and not the mum hirself!

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:43

User373433 · 24/02/2024 10:13

I think it is loud and clear your reasons are you think it's undignified because they are for girls only. Which is utter nonsense. Plenty of boys tights available, look at H&M and other European brands. I wonder if the foster carer is putting them on him for dignity, to cover up the fact he is 4 and still in nappies? Maybe it stops him undoing his nappy? It's a common thing to do with SEN children who poo smear for eg.

Oh for god's sake. I've not once given the opinion they are only for girls. I have said I know it is common in cold countries for boys to wear tights.

He wears a vest. We have never had the need to put him in tights. The answer anyway isn't to make him hot and uncomfortable.

OP posts:
isitshe · 24/02/2024 12:45

What the holy hell is wrong with posters like
@amylou8
@Tatonka and
@lovelysoap
who seem to be incapable of reading the OP’s previous comments? It takes one tap to filter the updates!
I’m finding it incredibly frustrating reading these gormless, ignorant, and deeply insensitive comments.
@TotoroElla you are doing incredibly well to keep your cool and reply with dignity!

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:46

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:14

Read the thread ffs.

I presume you are lucky enough to be surrounded by friends and family with plenty of money and space and time? So if you get cancer you can just ring up aunty Ann two doors down and everything will be hunky dory?

There are lots of single mums in the country who couldn’t magic up a family member or friend to take in a disabled 4 year old full time, on an on going basis.

Im sure the mother wishes the boy was with granny- but there isn’t one. I’m sure the op would prefer the child was with her- but he can’t be because she has 2 disabled children already.

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I do wish he was with me. I feel so guilty he isn't 😞 And we are scared about if he is ok with the FC. We can't stand the thought of him being unhappy.

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 24/02/2024 12:47

Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

No it doesn’t, parents don’t lose parental responsibility when their children are in foster care. That’s a separate legal process and only comes into play when there needs to be a permanent arrangement for the child.

Children can go into foster care when parents are incapacitated through illness, which the OP has repeatedly said is the case here, and in such a situation the parent retains parental rights and responsibilities.

. @TotoroElla the foster carer should be listening to the child’s mum and the social worker and dressing the child appropriately. The mum can raise this formally through their social worker or at the next review and, if not listened to, can follow the formal complains process.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:50

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:15

Parents who have their kids taken into care for any reason will often feel very powerless and as if they’re already failing their children even if it’s beyond their control like in the case of the OPs relative who sadly has cancers.

Unnecessary actions like this which is causing discomfort for their child can be especially upsetting for the bio parents as they already feel a bit helpless.

It’s a very delicate time for the children too and whereby another kid might not remember incidents like this, for a child in care the stress of the “hot tights” they kept being made to wear may form a big part of their early years memory.

I’m speaking as a former social services professional ( educator for children in care working alongside SWs) and as a care experienced adult who spent a year in privately arranged kinship care as a 4 year old.

Yes, this is so accurate. It might seem petty but his mum hates the fact the FC doesn't put him in matching clothes. She won't put the same tracksuit bottoms on with the top she just puts any old one on. This kills his mum because she wants to be the one dressing him and making him look 'nice.' But she has to tell herself it doesn't matter as long as he is comfortable. But it's hard.

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 24/02/2024 12:53

It's obviously impossible for you to look after this child. Nobody has any business telling you that you should do so. But someone needs to, and you can't expect to micromanage how that person does it.

Its not micromanaging to expect the foster carer to dress the child in the way his mum would chose to, mum has the right to expect the foster carer to respect her wishes for her child and indeed has a duty to do so.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:53

Createausername1970 · 24/02/2024 10:17

Can't believe some of the replies!

Basically you are trying to advocate for an SEN child in foster care (because mum is seriously unwell) and the FC is ignoring requests from mum and SW. SEN child is mostly non-verbal so cannot say whether he is comfortable with a particular situation, but as a family member who knows the child, you recognise tell-tale signs that he is not comfortable.

That is the gist of the situation?

You have had good advice about making a formal complaint. But I would also want to know the reason the FC keeps doing what she has been asked not to do. There may be a valid reason, but FC needs to explain.

Yes, exactly. And I have definitely taken that from this thread instead of asking her not to do it we first need to find out why she is!

OP posts:
Jouleigh · 24/02/2024 12:58

I thought the same about my adult children and teenagers it's thing at the moment. I think try look quite comfy and easy to wash and dry too

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:58

snoopyfanaccountant · 24/02/2024 10:29

OP, just another thought; has the nursery said anything to the FC about the tights? They are obviously dealing with this on a day to day basis and seeing his discomfort. You say that they remove the tights but put them back on for him to go home. Could his DM not ask that they don't put them back on and tell the FC that they are having to remove them because he is too hot?

He only goes to nursery twice a week currently. I actually don't know what is happening at nursery. I just have seen a photo of him there in bare feet, suggesting they take them off.

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:03

TotalAbsenceOfImperialRaiment · 24/02/2024 10:33

And some people wonder why there is a shortage of foster carers.

So we shouldn't advocate for this vulnerable DC because their is a shortage of FCs? If a family making a reasonable request of a FC makes them not want to foster them perhaps they shouldn't be doing it in the first place?(Not saying this is relevant to our FC, at all.)

OP posts:
Carpediemmakeitcount · 24/02/2024 13:03

CecilyP · 24/02/2024 12:41

Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse, it gets worse!

Thank goodness OP is just a friend of the boy’s mum and not the mum hirself!

Edited
Show quote history

Her friend has cancer. Honestly, some of these posts need to be deleted. My mum died from cancer last year please check yourself and remove this nasty post.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:07

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:43

don’t go after a selfless person who fosters other peoples children because of an item of clothing she puts them in.

I wouldn’t assume someone is a good or selfless person because they are foster carers. In my experience there were some outstanding foster carers who made me tear up when I saw how amazing they were and what an Impact they made on the children, but there were also some who clearly done it purely for the money.

I also grew up with a girl who has recently received a significant amount of compensation for the abuse she suffered in two of her foster care placements.

Again to be clear there are great foster carers also but I can’t assume they’re all selfish lovely humans who put the children’s needs first.

While I'm sure most FC are great, I think it is dangerous to dismiss any concerns raised. I have a friend who was abused by her foster carer. (Not suggesting this FC is abusive.)

OP posts:
Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 13:09

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 12:46

I do wish he was with me. I feel so guilty he isn't 😞 And we are scared about if he is ok with the FC. We can't stand the thought of him being unhappy.

Show quote history

Of course you wish you could do more, but you are doing what you can. Supporting the mum and advocating for the child. Try not to feel guilty (I know that’s easily said but difficult to do).

I adore my nephews and nieces, but I couldn’t take them in in your situation- I am disabled, I have a disabled child and I just don’t have the capacity to do it- many many families would be in the same situation. That’s why this type of FC exists.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:09

Thelnebriati · 24/02/2024 10:44

Having standards for foster carers isn't 'going after' them. If you think there should be any kind of sacred caste working around children, you need to take another safeguarding course.

Absolutely agree!

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:11

Haveyoubrushedyourteeth · 24/02/2024 10:51

Bloody hell I don't think I've ever read a nastier thread on here! Some of you posters should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.

I just can't imagine how hard this is for you all OP, I think in your shoes I'd be focusing on the too hot issues (I still remember how sweaty and itchy wooly tights are, especially behind the knees, and I only ever wore them with dresses) But I'd also try and appeal to the compassion of the FC. Mum has so much to worry about, and is going through so much that something as simple as no tights would make a massive difference to her. She's got so little control over what's happening to him, or herself, and this is such an easy fix that any decent human being would do it unless there was an essential reason not to such as smearing etc in which case I'd send him with thin leggings for underneath to at least stop the itchiness.

Sending love to you all. The way you've kept your cool on here with such unpleasantness is exemplary. I hope things improve very soon.

Thank you so much.

OP posts:
Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 13:13

Lucytheloose · 24/02/2024 12:07

You seem very over-invested in what someone else's child wears. And no, it won't turn him gay.

So, if this was your sister who had cancer and was distressed about this, and your nephew who wasn’t having his needs met in foster care, you would be totally uninterested? Wouldn’t give a shit?

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:13

RosaBaby2 · 24/02/2024 10:55

Haven't read the full thread.

Tights are not 'undifnified' at any age for either sex.

Does he wear vests, as if still in nappies maybe the FC is using the tights to hold his nappy up?

If the child is too hot nursery should be saying something to the carer.

Hope mum gets better soon, must be so hard for her.

Yes, he wears vests. Nursery may have said something, I don't know.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Abouttimeforanamechange · 24/02/2024 13:15

However I have also never seen a girl in tights under trousers.

Tights under trousers used to be recommended against for girls and women, the reason was that the extra layers led to warm moist conditions which allowed yeast infections to take hold. (I don't know if this is still the case.)

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:15

TathingScinsel · 24/02/2024 10:56

Lots of SEN girls hate tights too. I think they are a very love or hate item for people (especially children) with sensory sensitivity, not much middle ground.

It’s such an oft-observed phenomenon that specialist products exist eg: https://sensorysmart.co.uk/collections/seamless-tights-cotton?grid_list=grid-view

Joggers are often a very acceptable clothing choice for ASD children, plus they are cheap to buy and easy to wash - seems to me they are an obvious start point for the sensory sensitive, whereas tights are an obvious avoid-unless-compulsory for school uniform item!

Seems like the FC is making everyone miserable for no good practical reason at all.

Show quote history

My DD is one of them. Never wears tights.

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:19

Miyagi99 · 24/02/2024 11:00

I wear tights or long johns under my clothes nearly all winter. I find it odd kids (at 4 too) would know how he was wearing them at all or even knowing that they’re ‘for girls’ - which they’re not exclusively btw.

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That makes me ill thinking of wearing tights under trousers! I don't think we're a tights wearing family!

There are Dc who are told very early on that certain things are only for girls.

OP posts:
Samlewis96 · 24/02/2024 13:20

lovelysoap · 24/02/2024 10:08

I think mum is focusing on the tights issue to avoid the real issue. Children are only taken into foster care as a very last resort. There is a huge lack of foster care spaces and they only go to the children most at risk of immediate serious harm and when there are no other suitable family members who are even able to care for the child on a temporary basis. Things generally need to be rock bottom for a child to be in foster care and not even dad or any of dads extended family or friends can care for the child. Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

i think that it is understandable that the family will focus on a small issue about the foster carer which is easier than facing up tot he very difficult reality that they cant keep a child safe despite social workers trying to work with them to keep the child safe for a long time.

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

The mum is undergoing treatment for cancer Not sure how she can deal with the " issues" that led to him being in care . Am sure she'd rather not be going through this

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:20

Funnily enough I remember my DS at karate age 5 being asked by another boy why he was wearing 'girls socks' - just because his socks were white!

OP posts:
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