Page 14 | To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

TotoroElla · 2024-02-23T23:01:45+00:00

Just trying to understand and find a way forward. A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them. Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

rainbowunicorn · 24/02/2024 10:13

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What a nasty thing to say. Try reading the OP posts and you will see that the child is in care as the mum is unwell. Typical post from you.

User373433 · 24/02/2024 10:13

I think it is loud and clear your reasons are you think it's undignified because they are for girls only. Which is utter nonsense. Plenty of boys tights available, look at H&M and other European brands. I wonder if the foster carer is putting them on him for dignity, to cover up the fact he is 4 and still in nappies? Maybe it stops him undoing his nappy? It's a common thing to do with SEN children who poo smear for eg.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:14

lovelysoap · 24/02/2024 10:08

I think mum is focusing on the tights issue to avoid the real issue. Children are only taken into foster care as a very last resort. There is a huge lack of foster care spaces and they only go to the children most at risk of immediate serious harm and when there are no other suitable family members who are even able to care for the child on a temporary basis. Things generally need to be rock bottom for a child to be in foster care and not even dad or any of dads extended family or friends can care for the child. Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

i think that it is understandable that the family will focus on a small issue about the foster carer which is easier than facing up tot he very difficult reality that they cant keep a child safe despite social workers trying to work with them to keep the child safe for a long time.

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

Read the thread ffs.

I presume you are lucky enough to be surrounded by friends and family with plenty of money and space and time? So if you get cancer you can just ring up aunty Ann two doors down and everything will be hunky dory?

There are lots of single mums in the country who couldn’t magic up a family member or friend to take in a disabled 4 year old full time, on an on going basis.

Im sure the mother wishes the boy was with granny- but there isn’t one. I’m sure the op would prefer the child was with her- but he can’t be because she has 2 disabled children already.

FabFebHalfTerm · 24/02/2024 10:15

lovelysoap · 24/02/2024 10:08

I think mum is focusing on the tights issue to avoid the real issue. Children are only taken into foster care as a very last resort. There is a huge lack of foster care spaces and they only go to the children most at risk of immediate serious harm and when there are no other suitable family members who are even able to care for the child on a temporary basis. Things generally need to be rock bottom for a child to be in foster care and not even dad or any of dads extended family or friends can care for the child. Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

i think that it is understandable that the family will focus on a small issue about the foster carer which is easier than facing up tot he very difficult reality that they cant keep a child safe despite social workers trying to work with them to keep the child safe for a long time.

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

@lovelysoap

my advice would be to get off your snotty high horse & read the OP's posts. FFS

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:15

Parents who have their kids taken into care for any reason will often feel very powerless and as if they’re already failing their children even if it’s beyond their control like in the case of the OPs relative who sadly has cancers.

Unnecessary actions like this which is causing discomfort for their child can be especially upsetting for the bio parents as they already feel a bit helpless.

It’s a very delicate time for the children too and whereby another kid might not remember incidents like this, for a child in care the stress of the “hot tights” they kept being made to wear may form a big part of their early years memory.

I’m speaking as a former social services professional ( educator for children in care working alongside SWs) and as a care experienced adult who spent a year in privately arranged kinship care as a 4 year old.

Original poster

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:16

BreatheAndFocus · 24/02/2024 08:34

But perhaps she doesn’t even get why the tights aren’t ok? It’s like saying why did she bring the child along with hair longer than an inch because ‘everyone knows boys need shaved heads with very short hair because hair round the ears or hair that’s curling at all is for girls’. That’s equally ridiculous.

Maybe the mum needs to look at her regressive ideas and the message they might send in future? This week I saw a mum in the supermarket snapping at her son when he pointed to a pink character Easter egg and said that was the one he wanted for Easter. She told him it was “for girls”. When he said “but I like it”, she took his hand and pulled him away.

Pretty much all attitudes like that stem from homophobia IMO. Poor little boy.

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Little boy has curly hair 😂

His mum does not have regressive ideas and no she does not need to be worrying about whether some people may misinterpret her concern for her DS in that way while trying to cope with chemo.

Yes, he is a poor little boy - his mum has cancer and might die. 😢

OP posts:

Rosestulips · 24/02/2024 10:16

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

@lovelysoap

The mother’s cancer diagnosis is the real issue. I’m sure she is facing this head on

Forester1 · 24/02/2024 10:16

I think you’ve had some awful responses on here. Two layers on the bottom half in nursery is one layer too much. Whether a boy or girl. And sorry that as a family you’re in the position to need the help of FC.

Soontobe60 · 24/02/2024 10:17

Pearlyclouds · 23/02/2024 23:34

I put tights on my boy under trousers at nursery in the winters.. I think a lot of people do.
Nursery children under the age of 3 will not be making fun of each other they do not know what is 'culturally girls clothing' at that age.
If you think he's getting too hot that's a legitimate concern however I'm afraid if someone else is looking after him they may have different ideas of when it's too hot or cold and really they do have a right to make those choices just as any caregiver would. Not sure theres much you can do except say 'dont you think its too warm for that?' But if they disagree and think its cold.. well thats that i guess. People have this issue when parents are seperated... one parent puts the child in a coat and jumper.. the other wouldnt do that, they think its not cold enough etc end of the day theres not much you can do because that other person has parental responsibility when the childs in their care so get to maje decisions about whether they think the child might get cold or not whilst the child is in their care

I would argue that if a parent has asked the foster carer to not put their child in a particular item, then unless it’s an unreasonable request such as asking them to not put a coat on when it’s raining, the FC should comply with the parents request.
There could be all sorts of reasons why a child is in foster care, the job of a foster carer is to support that child and work with the actual parent as much as possible.
It’s not about whether it’s ok to put boys in tights under their trousers, it’s about a parent being ignored when making a very reasonable request.

Createausername1970 · 24/02/2024 10:17

Can't believe some of the replies!

Basically you are trying to advocate for an SEN child in foster care (because mum is seriously unwell) and the FC is ignoring requests from mum and SW. SEN child is mostly non-verbal so cannot say whether he is comfortable with a particular situation, but as a family member who knows the child, you recognise tell-tale signs that he is not comfortable.

That is the gist of the situation?

You have had good advice about making a formal complaint. But I would also want to know the reason the FC keeps doing what she has been asked not to do. There may be a valid reason, but FC needs to explain.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:17

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:15

Parents who have their kids taken into care for any reason will often feel very powerless and as if they’re already failing their children even if it’s beyond their control like in the case of the OPs relative who sadly has cancers.

Unnecessary actions like this which is causing discomfort for their child can be especially upsetting for the bio parents as they already feel a bit helpless.

It’s a very delicate time for the children too and whereby another kid might not remember incidents like this, for a child in care the stress of the “hot tights” they kept being made to wear may form a big part of their early years memory.

I’m speaking as a former social services professional ( educator for children in care working alongside SWs) and as a care experienced adult who spent a year in privately arranged kinship care as a 4 year old.

Exactly!

WTF is wrong with people?!

Utter compassion and empathy bypass, as well as a metric fuck ton of ignorance and lack of common sense.

Sassi81 · 24/02/2024 10:19

@TotoroElla - I felt compelled to join Mumsnet today purely to say I’ve never seen such a vile lot of posters in my life!

I hope you and his mother continue to advocate for your nephew who obviously cannot speak up for himself at aged 4, let alone with SEN.

I myself would not be worried about putting a boy in tights for warmth but the simple fact is that he is clearly overheating and his comfort is being ignored, as are his mother’s wishes.

There are too many posters on here who appear all too hasty to leave nasty and judgemental comments without bothering to read the context fully.

Dont stop raising it with his Foster Carer - she clearly cares but regardless, his mother deserves an explanation.

All the best.

wast542 · 24/02/2024 10:20

To be honest I would not like this either. 4 year olds do notice things like this and my boy when he was 4 would have totally objected to this

Original poster

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:23

theduchessofspork · 24/02/2024 08:43

If she puts him in them then It’ll be because it’s colder at her house/nursery than at his mother’s house.

So take them off when he’s visiting home.

It will make no difference to him or the other kids at nursery. It’s nonsense to say it’s undignified. Foster carers do need to be able to get on with the job, and they need some autonomy to do that. Many look after several kids at a once and need to be able to get them dressed and out quickly.

The most useful thing you could do is discourage the mother from making a big deal of this

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Maybe it is cold at her house but not at nursery. I think if he's going to nursery or his mother's house he should be dressed appropriately for those environments. I dread to think how cold her house must be, though if he needs a double layer. I live in a drafty Victorian house and it's not cold in this mild weather.

I don't think mum is making a 'big deal' out of it. Just asked SW to stop putting him in tights as he gets too hot.

OP posts:

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:24

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:17

Exactly!

WTF is wrong with people?!

Utter compassion and empathy bypass, as well as a metric fuck ton of ignorance and lack of common sense.

Show quote history

You've summed up well what is wrong with them - lack of compassion and common sense. I hope none of these people are foster carers themselves.

This thread is actually quite upsetting tbh 😣

Original poster

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:25

Rosestulips · 24/02/2024 08:46

Another person who is projecting their own views and judgements rather than reading the OPs concerns.

it’s because he’s too hot!

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I know some people really are projecting!

OP posts:

Original poster

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:27

twogooddogs · 24/02/2024 08:47

Regardless of all the issues as to why the child is in care, the carer should be working with the family and SW and mum either retains or shares PR depending on legal arrangements. If carer is ignoring a seemingly reasonable request there are options to resolve this: the carer will have her own SW, child’s SW can involve her if she hasn’t already done so. Or, child will have an IRO (independent reviewing officer), mum can approach IRO and ask them to intervene- there will be an informal and formal dispute process to address such issues and/or discuss at child’s review. Or there will be a complaints process that can be used. Obviously better to try and resolve without a formal complaint if possible but can be escalated as required. Note: obv I don t know all circumstances but this is professional advice I would offer to any parent with a child in care.

We'd rather just resolve it amicably but thank you for the advice if this continues. I'm just wondering if the FC's SW would be best placed to resolve this issue with her.

OP posts:

snoopyfanaccountant · 24/02/2024 10:29

OP, just another thought; has the nursery said anything to the FC about the tights? They are obviously dealing with this on a day to day basis and seeing his discomfort. You say that they remove the tights but put them back on for him to go home. Could his DM not ask that they don't put them back on and tell the FC that they are having to remove them because he is too hot?

determinedtomakethiswork · 24/02/2024 10:30

Ruffpuff · 23/02/2024 23:03

Probably the idea is to keep him warm in winter. How do they know he’s getting hot?

He's 4. Maybe he's telling them.

CecilyP · 24/02/2024 10:31

lovelysoap · 24/02/2024 10:08

I think mum is focusing on the tights issue to avoid the real issue. Children are only taken into foster care as a very last resort. There is a huge lack of foster care spaces and they only go to the children most at risk of immediate serious harm and when there are no other suitable family members who are even able to care for the child on a temporary basis. Things generally need to be rock bottom for a child to be in foster care and not even dad or any of dads extended family or friends can care for the child. Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

i think that it is understandable that the family will focus on a small issue about the foster carer which is easier than facing up tot he very difficult reality that they cant keep a child safe despite social workers trying to work with them to keep the child safe for a long time.

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

In the time it took you to compose this long irrelevant post, you could have read all OPs posts explaining why the DC is in foster care.

TotalAbsenceOfImperialRaiment · 24/02/2024 10:33

And some people wonder why there is a shortage of foster carers.

Original poster

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:33

SKG231 · 24/02/2024 08:49

You say your sister is unwell and receiving treatment and that’s the reason why your nephew is in foster care. If you’re that bothered about the level of care he’s receiving why aren’t you or another family member stepping up and looking after him?

don’t go after a selfless person who fosters other peoples children because of an item of clothing she puts them in.

I've already explained that. There is no other family member. I have 2 SEN DC and no space for the little boy. I would have him if I could. But I figure I'm best placed to support like this rather than having a breakdown then all 3 would be in FC. I know people keep saying sister, but she's not my sister not that it matters, if I could have him I would 😢

And not only does he have to live with a stranger, his mum can't even ensure he is comfortable or happy because of how 'selfless' the FC is 😢

OP posts:

Original poster

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:37

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Well, yes cancer is serious but even so most mums put their DC above themselves and care about them being comfortable and happy even with other serious things going on.

OP posts:

CecilyP · 24/02/2024 10:38

YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/02/2024 10:10

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

Another judgemental twatty post made by a poster with limited reading ability.

The mother has cancer.

The poster, and all the other similar posters, obviously can read as they can write. Just too lazy and self-important to do so!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/02/2024 10:40

The poster, and all the other similar posters, obviously can read as they can write. Just too lazy and self-important to do so!

True. I willingly stand corrected.