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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

635 replies

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

OP posts:
isitshe · 24/02/2024 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@thebestinterest I haven't read any replies past yours. I read the first few on page one, then tapped 'See all' to read all the OP's posts. It's very easy to do. I saw OP's quote of your post.
I hope you've had your arse handed to you in subsequent replies for what you said and I hope you're ashamed that you said it.

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:54

Autumn1990 · 24/02/2024 05:55

if he’s sen the tights could be causing a sensory issues as well. My eldest has sensory issues and would rather be a bit cold than were something like tights next to the skin. To keep a child like this warm you can use a fleece lined puddle suit if they’re walking or a blanket in the pushchair

To posters saying other children won’t notice, at 4 there are definitely children who will notice differences and point them out.

The foster mother should be taking notice of the social worker

I agree that there could be DC who will notice and comment. Not to be nasty or to tease, but just in the way DC do comment on things. I remember when my DS was small there was a particular little boy who would always point things out to him like 'Cinderella is for girls', 'that pink ball is for girls'.

OP posts:
PurpleBugz · 24/02/2024 08:55

Could this turn out to be long term care? I've got nothing to base this on from the op but I wonder if in a couple years the FC will be saying this is a trans child based on the fact he's worn 'girls clothes like tights' for a while. SEN kids and kids in care are the most vulnerable groups for being pushed into transition. They are actively targeted.

Hopefully this isn't the case here but I think you should be aware of the influences on our kids. I have a high need SEN kid the trans influence is rife in all support services we have come across

Tarsandcase · 24/02/2024 08:55

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Have you read the thread?

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:56

Dibbydoos · 24/02/2024 06:07

@TotoroElla when you said he kept taking his socks off, I wondered if he was SEN.

Bless him. The FM needs to listen to the SW and his mum. A child overheating is a risk esp when they can't express they're too hot.

It's not about male/female - I never put my DS into tights cos I didnt think to cos you can buy weather appropriate clothes - it's about his wellbeing, so when conversations happen, be clearer that it's his wellbeing not a boy/girl thing and if she still doesn't stop it, ask for a justification.

Thank you, I will make sure this is clearly communicated.

OP posts:
Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 08:56

Chickenpie35 · 24/02/2024 08:05

Wow this up there with the worst ive read on here

She's clearly just keeping him warm.

Both my boys wore tights even for nursery.

H&m sell boys tights! With boys patterns on, so it's really not that unheard of or obscure and when I didn't have patterned boys tights they just wore plain tights because they are warm and play out in all westhers at nursery and when they were still in a pram neither liked foot muff, cosy toes or blankets on them so they were put in tights because I might have been warm walking miles but they were sat still in a pram and not keeping warm by moving.

Not once did it ever cross my mind that:
Other kids would notice they had "girls" clothing on,
The nursery staff would be like oh look shes put her boy in tights, GIRL tights let's tell her how bad of a parent she is,
Not once did I think it was unacceptable...... until it was too warm.

Only ever thought about my kids being warm and comfortable.

To be so offended says more about you than anyone else especially the person you're annoyed at grow up

Absolute bollocks. It isn’t about your kids, or how hot or cold they are- it’s about this child and hot or cold HE is.

HE is too hot and uncomfortable- the nursery staff who have known him longer than the FC can see this- they remove the tights, his family who know him better than anyone can see this, and they remove them. The SW can see this and has told the FC to stop, as have the family.

The FC is there to take care of the child while the mum gets over cancer- this is a devastating situation for the child (who already has SEND to deal with), and the family.

The FC should be 100% prioritising the safety and comfort of the child, and should be being guided on all issues by the mother (who still has PR in all matters), and the SW who is aware of the child’s SEND- that is her job.

The SW might have views on gendered clothing that you don’t agree with (neither do I), and presumably the FC doesn’t either- but that is totally irrelevant.

If the FC isn’t capable of discerning the child’s needs herself by observing him being hot/red in the face/irritable, and isn’t willing to listen to his mother (who’s only crime is to be ill with cancer and not have a family member who has the capacity to take in a disabled 4 year old indefinitely), the nursery professionals or the SW- what the fuck else isnt she able to see?!

Just try and imagine being a single mum with a disabled 4 year old, finding out you have cancer and the treatment you need to try and stay alive is going to make you so so ill that the only option is for someone else, that you don’t know, to step in and take care of your child.

You are deathly ill, and you have to make the selfless decision to allow your disabled 4 year old, whom you know will be devastated and frightened, and who doesn’t even have the language to express that, to go and live with a stranger.

You have to trust that that stranger will take care of your child, be kind to them and meet their already complex needs at a time when they are incredibly emotionally and physically vulnerable- you trust them to do that while knowing that they don’t love your child like you do.

And then that FC ignores a simple request, from 3 different sources- she has the arrogance to think she knows your child, whom you have brought up for 4 years and whose every need is as clear as day to you, better than you.

And you think you wouldn’t be bothered and @TotoroElla and the child’s mother should ‘grow up’?!

You wouldn’t think, if she can’t see he is too hot and she doesn’t care how I, as his mother, want him to be cared for- then what else is she doing? Is she feeding him properly? Does she know when he is full or hungry? Can she tell when his nappy needs to be changed? Does she notice when he is frightened and misses his mummy, and does she reassure him?

You would be a grown up would you, and turn off all your care and worry for your child?

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:56

Tatonka · 24/02/2024 06:13

Do you mean leggings? I put my son in leggings, they're much more comfy and flexible than boys pants. They're also warmer and cheaper.

No, tights, with jogging bottoms over the top.

OP posts:
Tarsandcase · 24/02/2024 08:56

Lumiodes · 24/02/2024 08:31

If the child has been taken into foster care then tights are the least of his problems. If Mum wants to decide what he wears then maybe don’t get him taken off you?

Please read the thread before commenting again. I don't think the mum wants to have cancer or have her child in foster care

redsky21 · 24/02/2024 08:58

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Have you actually read any of the OP's post? Mum is unwell and not able to look after her child. Some proper judgemental dicks on this thread.
Tights on boys is not the issue, the problem is the child is too hot and the foster carer is ignoring parental wishes. I would put in a formal complaint if this continues.

isitshe · 24/02/2024 08:58

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Indeed. Like the fact that her sister, the little boy's mum, has cancer.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:58

MoreLidlThanWaitrose · 24/02/2024 06:31

FC needs to respect parental wishes (barring parents actually requesting something unsafe or whatever).

Personally I have no issues with boys wearing tights in whatever context but it does seem an odd choice in the mild weather we’ve been having to layer him up.

Yes, I could understand if it was freezing.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 24/02/2024 08:59

This is wrong. If she lacks sense in this what other poor judgements is she making. Sounds totally unsuitable to be fostering.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Sorry?

OP posts:
Rosestulips · 24/02/2024 09:00

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

This thread is really bringing out the nasty bigots of mumsnet isn’t it. Perhaps read the full thread before commenting.

To quote you, FFS

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 09:01

Mmmm19 · 24/02/2024 06:58

it’s common to do this for boys under trousers. They must be worried it’s cold. I’d go for he felt too hot inside rather than focussing on the tights. Is his nursery cold inside with a door to outside always opening and closing or does he spend much of the day outside?

No, nursery is very warm. They don't have free flow to the outside. They just have 'playtime' outside.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 09:02

Sufac · 24/02/2024 06:59

Four year olds don’t make fun of each other for what they are wearing. If the nursery staff think he’s too hot they will remove them like they would a jumper.

There is obviously something else going on here, do you think he’s going to turn into a girl by wearing them?

Do I think he's going to turn into a girl by wearing them? 😂 Erm...no.

OP posts:
Tarsandcase · 24/02/2024 09:03

Rosestulips · 24/02/2024 09:00

This thread is really bringing out the nasty bigots of mumsnet isn’t it. Perhaps read the full thread before commenting.

To quote you, FFS

Edited

It's horrible. OP is doing well to ignore them.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 09:03

@Stravaig @Lumiodes read the thread ffs- the mothers only failing is to have cancer!

Presumably that could never happen to you?!

A shit thing has happened to the mother of a disabled child, the child’s life is turned upside down and a FC is compounding the utter devastation of the situation by refusing to listen to reason and deciding she knows better than the mother, the nursery staff and the specialist SW.

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 09:03

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

It doesn't matter why he's in foster care, what matters is that he is, that's he's away from his family. Maybe he likes wearing tights, maybe they help him feel snug and secure and protected, like swaddling for a baby, or a blankie. Maybe that's what the carer has picked up on.

My point is focus on the important stuff, not stereotypical boys and girls clothing.

GleeFull · 24/02/2024 09:07

i assume mum still holds parental responsibility so her requests should be respected. If he was outside on a snowy walk but indoors it sounds completely unnecessary. Social workers do uphold people’s dignity. I think some people are giving you a hard time OP

CecilyP · 24/02/2024 09:08

10 degrees is cold, especially if he's playing outside at nursery.

It really isn’t! Minus temperatures are cold! If 4 year olds are outside, they’re generally running around being active, not standing about. That’s what adults do and they don’t normally wear tights under trousers! Tights are normally associated with girls because girls wear skirts and dresses. However, when it’s this mild there are plenty of girls just wearing socks with their dresses.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 09:08

Hotgirlwinter · 24/02/2024 07:22

My god, people are massively failing to see the point here.

Tights under trousers for a 4 year old who is indoors is completely unnecessary and must be making him really uncomfortable.

In terms of what you can do OP, I guess firstly speak to the nursery manager and ask them to ensure LO is appropriately dressed when he is with them and that they should ensure he isn’t hot or distressed and give express permission to remove tights. Nurseries are kept so warm that I cannot imagine having two layers on then a top / jumper too. It’s red hot in our nursery, the staff walk about it T-shirts in the middle of January!!!

secondly, make a formal complaint to the SW and ask for them to have a formal conversation with the FC. I realise the SW has mentioned it before but perhaps FC hasn’t really taken it on board and it might be what she’s done for other children. She may need to be told in a more formal direct way.

Hope your friend recovers and is reunited with her little boy soon. It must be very hard for her.

Also, if I tried to put “girl” tights on my 4 year old he’d scream absolute bloody murder. Of course preschool kids realise the basics of gender norms - not saying it’s right but that is a fact of life. They’re 4 not babes in arms.

Yes, his nursery is kept toasty so no need for a double layer. Thank you for the advice.

And thank you, that's very kind.

And exactly, it's not about the rights and wrongs of tights being on boys. But just about him being the same as his peers considering he can't express a preference or understand if a DC is innocently asking why he is wearing 'girl' clothes.

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/02/2024 09:09

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Another vile comment.

Disgusting.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 09:09

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 09:03

It doesn't matter why he's in foster care, what matters is that he is, that's he's away from his family. Maybe he likes wearing tights, maybe they help him feel snug and secure and protected, like swaddling for a baby, or a blankie. Maybe that's what the carer has picked up on.

My point is focus on the important stuff, not stereotypical boys and girls clothing.

Right, so his mother who has successfully brought him up for 4 years, the nursery staff who have known him for years and the specialist SW who has known him for years are all wrong?

The fact the child is red in the face, blotchy, irritable and hot is irrelevant?

The fact that when the tights are removed he stops being distressed, hot and blotchy indicates that he WANTS to be wearing woolly tights- and the FC has divined this fact that every other fucker has missed?

Right.

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