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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be angry that Scarlet Blake is being called a woman.

795 replies

ArabellaScott · 23/02/2024 15:42

Scarlet Blake has been found guilty of murder. He also tortured and killed a cat.

He is not a woman.

This shouldn't be reported as a woman's crime.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-68360122

Scarlet Blake

Cat killer Scarlet Blake found guilty of murdering Jorge Martin Carreno

Jorge Martin Carreno was pulled from a river after being killed by Scarlet Blake in 2021.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-68360122

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/02/2024 15:38

I think we have established that murderous, sadistic men don't go to women's prisons anymore.

In this country, for now, at least. Scotland and the rest of the world it's another matter. There was a case I remember in the US where a woman nearly had the murderer of her child transferred into the same prison she was in. Inhuman.

DamasceneRose · 24/02/2024 15:38

The gaslighting continues in The Independent today (don’t read the article unless you have a very strong stomach).

It’s astonishing that the journalist manages to include gruesome detail about how the cat was killed but doesn’t once hint at the fact that Scarlet is male. Of all the disturbing facts in this crime, only his real sex is unmentionable.

Chersfrozenface · 24/02/2024 15:38

The only way "trans" is relevant is that the media needs to make it clear that this murderer is NOT A WOMAN.

AIstolemylunch · 24/02/2024 15:40

Erin394 · 24/02/2024 14:15

Sex is not determined at conception. Most people think it is - but the only thing determined at conception is the plan for the development of a certain sex. For the sex to actually be developed, that plan needs to work out.

The gonads in human fetuses initially develop in a bi-potential state, meaning they can become either ovaries or testes. The SRY gene on the Y chromosome releases a protein called testis-determining factor (TDF). This protein then starts a chain reaction with SOX9 production (another protein), which causes the gonadal cells to form into the Sertoli and Leydig cells that make up the testes. If TDF is never produced or is interfered with, the gonad cells form into the Theca cells and follicles (which comprise the ovaries).

Once formed, the testes then begin producing a testosterone surge which typically starts in the eighth week of gestation and continues until the 24th week. This surge, combined with another hormone from the placenta, is responsible for the development of the penis and scrotum. Genitalia formation starts around week nine and becomes identifiable by the 11th week. If the surge does not occur, or the body does not respond to it (such as in the case of androgen insensitivity syndrome) then the genitalia form into the vulva, vagina, and uterus instead.

If there is an interference in this process then we can end up with the wrong bits, and this is the result of many intersex conditions. Oftentimes this is a partial development, where the external genitalia only partially form but functional gonads still exist. Sometimes children come out with fully functional male or female genitalia, but mismatched gonads. Sometimes the TDF protein fails to release and the fetus grows completely functional female reproductive organs, despite the presence of a Y chromosome.

The fact is, the vast majority of the population has never been tested for genetic karyotype, so we don’t know how common these cases actually are. Where does this come into effect for gender identity? Well, the exact same process that causes the external genitals to differentiate also occurs for the brain.

The prenatal brain doesn’t really start to develop until between week 12 and 24. The cerebral cortex, the thin outer layer of the brain that contains most of what we think of as consciousness, grows substantially during those periods of time. Prior to that, the structure present is more like a scaffolding — the basic parts of the nervous system necessary for bodily function. The primary sulci (the wrinkles in the cerebral cortex that allow for more surface area) start to form at week 14, well after the genitals have developed.

It has been confirmed multiple times via MRI studies that there are small but significant differences between cis male and cis female brains — differences which align with the gender identities of trans people in the study. Note that this does not mean that anyone with those differences will have that gender; gender identity isn’t that simple, but it provides evidence that there is a clear difference in masculine and feminine brains. There is also evidence that brains can have mosaic combinations of these differences, which may be the case in non-binary people.

A change in the testosterone levels in the fetus after the 11th week can directly impact the masculinization of the cerebral cortex, as well as changes in other parts of the brain structure. This has been examined over and over again in studies of female-assigned children with CAH (congenital adrenal hyperplasia) and CAIS (complete androgen insensitivity syndrome).

An excess of testosterone in the mother’s body during the second trimester can (and does) cause masculinization of the brain in an externally female fetus, and an interference in testosterone production or uptake can (and does) cause feminization of the brain in an externally male fetus. This interference does not have to be external in origin, either. Any number of genetic traits can cause the brain to respond differently to testosterone.

A fairly large study of transgender individuals released in 2018 found several key genes (https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/2/390/5104458) which were statistically more likely to be longer among trans women (longer as in having more repeated fragments). Individually these genes may not have an impact strong enough to cause a malfunction of masculinization, but collectively they absolutely could reduce the ability for the fetal brain to masculinize. These genes are all passed from parent to child, giving credence to a tendency for trans parents to have trans children.

Don't come on here and lecture women about sex determination. I've got a degree in molecular biology, I know how sex determination in mammals works and it is determined at conception. If it goes wrong somewhere downstream and the individual is born with a DSD, they are still male or female. In very rare cases of chimerism they may have streak gonads or ovotestes, but they are still male or female, and this has nothing to do with people with psychological problems who believe they are trans. Or are you suggesting that all trans people have DSDs or that all trans sex criminals have DSDs? There's a few DSD activists on twitter that might want a word if so.

And you male/female brain desperation is laughable. As anyone that knows anything about neurobiology, brains are plastic and moulded according to environment, so are influenced by sexuality, hobbies, interests, ASD, mental illness, hormones and depression etc. There's no such thing as a male or female brain outside of a brain found in a female or a brain found in a male.

Just give it up. Stop looking for a biological explanation for a 'mistake' that means people are 'born in the wrong body' Its utter nonsense. You get the body youre born with and thats it. The mask has slipped. People gave trans identifying people an inch and, as usual, the men involved demanded a mile. We dont see trans identifying men as woman and we never will. We see them as deluded men with mental m illnesses or paraphillias that have taken over their lives. And always will.

Try and make a success out of the body and the life you've been given, instead of looking for external validation that will never come from more than a handful of naive people telling you lies to be nice.

Erin394 · 24/02/2024 15:41

ArabellaScott · 24/02/2024 15:27

Because I believe no prisoner should be subject to 'extra' punishment. Not Scarlet Blake nor Lucy Letby.

My anger does not stop me from believing that prisoners deserve to be kept safe while incarcerated.

Then maybe a prison for trans people would be the most amicable solution. Transwomen criminals don't have to risk getting abused by violent men in the showers and in cells, and women criminals don't have to fear trans women who aren't on HRT, sexually anyway (since that's the difference). But I know most trans people out of prison would hate the idea since it others us. So I don't really see a good solution, and Scarlet being abused by men in prison is the most likely outcome. Then again I can't have much sympathy for anyone as psychopathic as them.

SomeCatFromJapan · 24/02/2024 15:43

This person will be put on the wing with the other "vulnerable" prisoners so you can stop worrying about them.

Or is the issue that them being in the male estate not affirming enough?

Helleofabore · 24/02/2024 15:47

Erin394 · 24/02/2024 15:18

There's an entire pseudoscience around it called autogynephilia. It's played a big role in the development of transphobia for decades.

You can see the affects in this thread when people seem to think Scarlet is going to be some sexual threat to women in prison - when in reality trans women tend to have very low sex drives and certainly cannot "do it" as a man could.

She is a threat to women, but because she is a psychopath, not because she is a trans woman. Yet that seems to have flown under the radar??

And yet you don’t seem to have thought of female people at all with your claims. At all!!

I don’t believe that posters are claiming that female people with trans identities have autogynephilia. Let alone any poster claiming 100 % of male people.

Again, you have catastrophised and over exaggerated here to claim victimhood.

Note to readers: male people with trans identities have displayed a tendency to forget female trans people, and they certainly ignore the needs of female people in general. Such as the assertion that female people in prison are ‘not innocent’ and therefore should have their needs disregarded to accommodate the demands of a male person who declares they have a trans identities.

GailBlancheViola · 24/02/2024 15:47

and women criminals don't have to fear trans women who aren't on HRT, sexually anyway (since that's the difference)

You miss the point again - the female prison estate is not there to validate males with a trans identity, it is not just about fear of being sexually assaulted it is about the human right of women, even incarcerated women, to the basics of dignity and privacy and not to be used as tools in a male persons idea of themselves.

Sushimad · 24/02/2024 15:49

YANBU. It is wrong, and I believe it's done deliberately to further their agenda.
I used your link and have submitted a complaint to the BBC, although I doubt they'll care or listen.

AIstolemylunch · 24/02/2024 15:50

Erin394 · 24/02/2024 15:41

Then maybe a prison for trans people would be the most amicable solution. Transwomen criminals don't have to risk getting abused by violent men in the showers and in cells, and women criminals don't have to fear trans women who aren't on HRT, sexually anyway (since that's the difference). But I know most trans people out of prison would hate the idea since it others us. So I don't really see a good solution, and Scarlet being abused by men in prison is the most likely outcome. Then again I can't have much sympathy for anyone as psychopathic as them.

You are 'other'. You aren't women and don't want to be the men you are. You are a third category, and this is self imposed. If trans women admitted to themselves that they were men who felt more comfortable with long hair, wearing stereotypical women's clothing likes skirts and dresses (that many women don't even wear), taking estrogen, despite the medical risks, than very few women would have a problem with this and any criminals amongst them could go to the appropriate wing of male prison, perhaps the same one where vulnerable men already go.

GailBlancheViola · 24/02/2024 15:52

But I know most trans people out of prison would hate the idea since it others us. So I don't really see a good solution,

The solutions are simple - (1) allocation to the prison estate of your sex as your sex can never change and (2) don't commit crimes that will result in being sent to prison. Not hard, not rocket science.

TheKeatingFive · 24/02/2024 15:55

AIstolemylunch · 24/02/2024 15:50

You are 'other'. You aren't women and don't want to be the men you are. You are a third category, and this is self imposed. If trans women admitted to themselves that they were men who felt more comfortable with long hair, wearing stereotypical women's clothing likes skirts and dresses (that many women don't even wear), taking estrogen, despite the medical risks, than very few women would have a problem with this and any criminals amongst them could go to the appropriate wing of male prison, perhaps the same one where vulnerable men already go.

Exactly. It's not the job of anyone else to affirm you or include you as a woman when you're not. You're trying to make your identity issues everyone else's problem. But we're all sick of it.

There's nothing wrong with being a gender non conforming man. Better to get comfortable with reality.

WomaninBoots · 24/02/2024 15:56

The idea that Scarlett Blake somehow has a lower sexual motivation than other men because he is on HRT is so loony that it is hilarious. He has just been found guilty of a sexually motivated murder for crying out loud.

Helleofabore · 24/02/2024 15:56

Erin394 · 24/02/2024 15:41

Then maybe a prison for trans people would be the most amicable solution. Transwomen criminals don't have to risk getting abused by violent men in the showers and in cells, and women criminals don't have to fear trans women who aren't on HRT, sexually anyway (since that's the difference). But I know most trans people out of prison would hate the idea since it others us. So I don't really see a good solution, and Scarlet being abused by men in prison is the most likely outcome. Then again I can't have much sympathy for anyone as psychopathic as them.

Male people will still be a sexual danger to female people even if they have had their penis removed. Because you can sexually abuse and assault a female person even if you don’t have a penis. What a bizarre claim.

Those male people who are on estrogen that still retain their testes will still have testosterone in their system. And testosterone suppression in male people is unreliable.

They still are a ‘sexual danger’.

So much misinformation being spread here today.

Helleofabore · 24/02/2024 15:57

WomaninBoots · 24/02/2024 15:56

The idea that Scarlett Blake somehow has a lower sexual motivation than other men because he is on HRT is so loony that it is hilarious. He has just been found guilty of a sexually motivated murder for crying out loud.

It is remarkable isn’t it!

Helleofabore · 24/02/2024 15:58

AIstolemylunch · 24/02/2024 15:50

You are 'other'. You aren't women and don't want to be the men you are. You are a third category, and this is self imposed. If trans women admitted to themselves that they were men who felt more comfortable with long hair, wearing stereotypical women's clothing likes skirts and dresses (that many women don't even wear), taking estrogen, despite the medical risks, than very few women would have a problem with this and any criminals amongst them could go to the appropriate wing of male prison, perhaps the same one where vulnerable men already go.

Yep

AIstolemylunch · 24/02/2024 15:58

With his semen found on a coat and a vodka bottle top from the scene!

Plenty of men taking estrogen claim they can still get it up, or vary dosage etc if they want to impregnate (or rape) someone. Grace Lavery, for example, is about to become a father if his own self reporting is to be believed.

PonyPatter44 · 24/02/2024 16:03

There is already a transwomen's wing at HMP Downview. It's not very popular, tbh. Most transwomen cope adequately in the male estate now they know they're not going to be placed with women.

A substantial proportion of transwomen offenders are sex offenders, and the sex offender prisons are generally much calmer, more settled environments. Once sentenced, I would imagine SB will go to Wakefield, with all the other high-risk sadistic sex murderers.

Helleofabore · 24/02/2024 16:04

Erin394 · 24/02/2024 15:22

Why not put Scarlet is put in a cell with Lucy Letby? Sarah Barrass? Take your pick.

They can be psychopath friends.

This really shows how some posters view women.

ArabellaScott · 24/02/2024 16:05

Leaving aside the issue of prison, which is becoming a derail. the problem here is that the media is lying.

Scarlet Blake is a man, but nobody is reporting this fact.

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 24/02/2024 16:05

Helleofabore · 24/02/2024 16:04

This really shows how some posters view women.

It's basically just another shade of incel, isn't it?

AIstolemylunch · 24/02/2024 16:07

Yes, and this aspect fascinates me. So many men apparently want to become women and yet seem to absolutely detest actual women. Very weird psychological setup.

GailBlancheViola · 24/02/2024 16:08

WomaninBoots · 24/02/2024 15:56

The idea that Scarlett Blake somehow has a lower sexual motivation than other men because he is on HRT is so loony that it is hilarious. He has just been found guilty of a sexually motivated murder for crying out loud.

Unreal the lengths some will go to to downplay a crime such as this and the excuses they will come up with.

GailBlancheViola · 24/02/2024 16:10

AIstolemylunch · 24/02/2024 16:07

Yes, and this aspect fascinates me. So many men apparently want to become women and yet seem to absolutely detest actual women. Very weird psychological setup.

Equally how many men who want to be women make sure they keep their male reproductive system in full working order.

Timefordrama · 24/02/2024 16:11

Aside from putting in complaints to the BBC and other media outlets, what can we do to change things? A petition? Talking to our MPs? Engaging with those people in power who believe in objective and biological reality so they introduce legislation reflecting the necessity for truthful reporting? What would be best?

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