Boys dominating the playground

[Namechangeforthiss]

I’ve noticed at DD’s school the enclosed, paved playground is quite dominated by boys playing their (rough!) games in the middle. Meanwhile the girls mill around the edges, seemingly a bit nervous to even cross it, let alone join in. I’ve noticed the boys also seem to feel more ‘entitled’ to play equipment as well as the playground space and will be quite rough and jostle past if a girl tries to play on it.

Do you think playgrounds should be halved, not to segregate by sex (and both sexes should be encouraged to join in any game they want) but to save some space for children who want to play less physical/rough games?

Feel free to tell me I’m being precious! (I have a son as well, not smug girl mum complaining about boys, but he’s only 1!).

Research here which shows sex-based data on playground usage. Blue is boys and red is girls

So compulsory single sex education until what, 18? Uni? Then single sex work places because I'm sure women do better in female dominated workspaces too. Perhaps we can just find a big pen to put all the males in, rather than tackling the why.

As expected. But where is the evidence to suggest those girls are sitting by the sides when they don't want to? That diagram supports that boys and girls naturally segregate themselves at this age and that males engage in games that take up more space. It's interesting to see that some of the girls do go out into the middle and play amongst the boys yet boys seem to avoid the girl dominated area altogether.

Why can boys only let off steam kicking a football around a large space,? Why can't they run around a large space without the football or kick the football in a smaller space? Our school has a couple of goals one end so they can play with the footballs without requiring a match sized space dedicated to them every single playtime

Playgrounds are definitely (and obviously) sexist. It gives me the rage how early my dds learned that boys get to take up the most space.

Where is the research to show they don’t? Do you even have a daughter? Everything you’re saying about girls is very 1950s and not at all representative of my DD or the little girls I know.

And LOL at parenting failure. Same could be said in reverse, no? Although I wouldn’t say that because I’m not silly enough to think this is an issue of parenting failure. Unless every parent at the school in the study have magically failed together.

But given what we know about female socialisation and the patriarchy in general don’t you think we ought to at least entertain the notion that the ‘choices’ they are making are not the ones they could or should be making?

Half the time we make choices that we think are free will but are a product of our society. It’s only when they are pointed out (like here) that we realise that maybe it shouldn’t be that way. And most importantly perhaps (like the OP has) we should do something about it?

Just getting them ready for what they can expect in life when they leave school it sounds like 🤷‍♂️

That isn't how it works, academics don't focus on providing evidence to prove something that isn't, they focus on finding evidence to prove something that is.
This is your thread and your observation so you should be willing to back it up with reliable sources.
Struggling to see where I've said anything remotely 1950s? I'd say my mention of the importance in parents raising confident girls who don't allow themselves to be ushered into a corner (if they don't want to be there) is completely opposite to 1950s attitudes.
I have 2 of each. My girls were 'tomboys' who played for the local and school football teams until around 15yo when their interest organically changed to the more typical girly stuff.

This is your thread and your observation so you should be willing to back it up with reliable sources.

It’s getting very tedious now so this will be my last reply to you. Plenty of information has been shared on here regarding boys dominating communal play space, how girls feel about this, and how things could be improved so the spaces are shared better. You’ve sidestepped all of this, and instead just keep ranting on and on about… what? How girls prefer not to run about and instead mill about chit chatting, then it turned into ‘well it’s a parenting failure if they don’t rough and tumble with the boys’, and now it’s demanding evidence for some obscure part of the discussion when plenty of information has already been provided.

You seem irrationally irritated by something (me, I think) and just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over, while refusing to acknowledge the study that has been posted on here (probably the only relevant one) and the experiences of people who work in schools.

@Namechangeforthiss I'm not irritated at all, whilst I agree with your observation regarding the apparent space division in playgrounds, I don't agree with your theories behind why it happens. I've read the links the pp have attached and there is nothing to prove girls hanging out at the sides don't genuinely prefer it. This isn't an obscure part of the discussion, it is a crucial part of the topic pertaining to girls choices.

@Namechangeforthiss I thought of you this morning when I read the latest 'Invisible Women' newsletter by Caroline Criado Perez (recommend). It linked to this research out this week which has some great visuals and research into exactly this:

"After conducting two one-year-long observations based on #gender, tracking the paths of children during their break times, in the schoolyards across two distinct primary schools, we unearthed remarkable conclusions."

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/honorata_spatial-schoolyards-gender-activity-7158781055913603072-yDGf?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

Should we all lie down and let that play out then?

So if the boys weren’t there, they would still hang around the edges would they? As they prefer it?

I doubt very much if you compared these pictures to single sex schools that the girls wouldn’t be sticking to the side

might not be so stark a picture

This happened at my school, the parents complained and all types of balls were banned from the playground but they could still be used in the sports hall. The girls then started using more of playground, the smaller boys joined in playing with the other boys, and everyone seemed happier. Then the "sporty" boys parents went to the local paper claiming their sons were being discriminated against because the hall was only big enough for two games to be going on at one time. The school ended up being bullied into letting the boys have their footballs back in the playground, and the girls went back to hiding on the sideline trying to not get hit in the face by a ball or trainer. Its crazy how little people care about how girls are taught that they are second best to boys right from the get go.

I went to a single sex school and the energetic football kids played in the middle occupying most of the space, and the quieter more thoughtful kids played around the edges. Same patterns really to be honest, seems to be divided by play styles.

Yes brrrrrrr

but it won’t be as stark as the comparison

Why not ? At primary / juniors I was in small groups playing imaginary games, there were others playing dice / card games around the edges too, a few hide-and-seek games, some who used to watch the bees near the bushes, and in the middle a melee of about 3 different football / rugby / american football games happening simultaneously in utter chaos. In high school it was similar but I was usually in the library or DT rooms.

In my experience, it's not 'boys', it's bloody football...

I've worked in primary schools for 14 years now and football has always been the primary source of aggression, fighting and the like at break times; nothing else comes close.

My daughter is 9 an has basically said in her own words your post to me, she also said they can make her feel uncomfortable saying suggestive things to her an the other girls at 9/10... Also not being precious mum to a boy of 15 aswell as girl of 9

OP said she wants to ban football altogether.

I can't say for sure as speculation is pointless without evidence. I'd assume some would hang around the edges while some would go into the middle, depending on what types of games they prefer to play much like the mixed sex schools.

Because i think both boy’s schools and girls schools would show a very similar pattern

Children round the edges and children running round the middle

which you don’t see in the diagrams above