Boys dominating the playground

[Namechangeforthiss]

I’ve noticed at DD’s school the enclosed, paved playground is quite dominated by boys playing their (rough!) games in the middle. Meanwhile the girls mill around the edges, seemingly a bit nervous to even cross it, let alone join in. I’ve noticed the boys also seem to feel more ‘entitled’ to play equipment as well as the playground space and will be quite rough and jostle past if a girl tries to play on it.

Do you think playgrounds should be halved, not to segregate by sex (and both sexes should be encouraged to join in any game they want) but to save some space for children who want to play less physical/rough games?

Feel free to tell me I’m being precious! (I have a son as well, not smug girl mum complaining about boys, but he’s only 1!).

It would be really interesting to see if dominated playgrounds are more of an issue in schools that have expanded their class sizes and year groups but have not expanded their outside space? Children need space to run around and burn off some energy and be in the outdoors. It's something massively overlooked IMO when schools are expanded and open new classes in year groups. I also think the shortening of playtime has negatively affected children's play. We've lost the long 1hr+ lunchtimes, the 25 minute morning and afternoon break. Most schools seem to have a 15 minute morning break and a 50 minute lunch.

One school I worked at went from 2 form to 3 form in the course of a couple of years but we never got any more outside space, only a fancy new extension on the old building taking up the infant playground space. We had to start doing 3 staggered playtimes and lunchtimes as the single playground left just became too busy. We lost afternoon break as well.

What is interesting is that in summer months when the field was opened up so therefore more space the playground did always feel calmer.

You can't change the nature of kids or the differences between the sexes.

I'm a midday supervisor at a primary and ime you'd never get the kids to stay separate into rough and quiet.
It's a nice idea but not a practical one at all.

@Namechangeforthiss Glad to see that Make Space for Girls and OPAL have both been mentioned - look them up and how they can help, and definitely say something to the school. My DS is older now (secondary schools and lack of space or time for exercise is a whole other thread!) but his primary school at one point banned footballs but the kids still played football with a tennis ball... More effective strategies are having certain days for certain sports or girls only football, and explaining why to all the pupils. It's worth also looking at their PE teaching generally, and what after school clubs are available and on which days - eg if football and ballet are always on the same afternoon, or coding and gymnastics, do those clubs end up being heavily girl or boy dominated? (and yes, I am stereotyping on purpose). Is there a girls' football team?

You're not being precious at all. I'm not sure why other posters are so bothered about how you've seen this or not - plenty of primary schools you can walk past and see how the kids are playing. Do speak to your DD to get her input as well. As my DS got older he didn't like me saying anything. You are observing gender stereotypes at play. I've always said there's many a PhD in the dominance of primary playgrounds by football...

Women in Sport is worth looking at too https://womeninsport.org/resource/sport-stereotypes-and-stolen-dreams/

Oh, and the other thing is the attitude of the playground supervisors / lunch ladies / dinner ladies (😜). Without meaning to, they may be enabling the boys to play football and the girls not to. Look up 'whole school approach' to challenging gender stereotypes as part of it is training ALL staff (ie non-teaching staff as much as teachers and TAs) and getting all pupils and families on board.

Girls and boys often used to have separate playgrounds back in the day. That was got rid of as 'sexist', because realising they have slightly different needs wasn't allowed. My old primary school had a bit of wall left where the divide had been. Got rid of in the 60s or 70s I guess.
What I think is more of an issue is the older ones totally overrunning the littler ones. My children's school playground is quite overwhelming when I ever walk through it at breaktimes (occasional early pick up for doctors etc). The very little ones have a separate section, but from P3 onwards they're all in together.

Theres quite a bit of research in this, and there are things that can be done with playground design to help bring girls into the space. One of the schools i worked at did a lot of work on this.

@Namechangeforthiss

'Do you think playgrounds should be halved, not to segregate by sex (and both sexes should be encouraged to join in any game they want) but to save some space for children who want to play less physical/rough games?'

To answer your specific question - like other posters, the ideal is zones. Have four square in one bit, hopscotch in another, ball games other than four square in another, and then somewhere where games don't have to be organised. Or rotate days or times within a lunch break for different games. This is where OPAL can be really good, and having trained outside staff. I know not all schools can have it, but local football clubs often send in their young staff to initiate different games at lunchtime. Like this https://www.brentfordfccst.com/en/curriculum-coaching

Oh it's far from perfect, agreed. But at least the schools are trying!

Good luck! Hope you've seen my two replies since your update.

My child's school segregates the play areas by groups. I think there's about 5/6 groups mixed across each KS year, then they rotate around the spaces each week.

Then when all 5/6 rotations are done, they reallocate the groups and mix them up and start again.

This is to prevent cliques and help behaviour management and support social mixing.

Have a look at the OPAL project. My DC's old primary introduced a few years ago and the outcomes for staff and students have been transformative. Check out the videos.

outdoorplayandlearning.org.uk

I don't think segregation is the answer! My two sons played with boys and girls until late primary, their friendships are mixed. Are the fme rough or active? Because active play is important for all children and assists development understanding of risk, flexibility and team work.
My experience of working in all girls school was toxic sly bullying and no encouragement to engage in sports etc. we live in a mixed society. The quoted research on girls has been questioned by researchers for a longtime.

I don't believe it is healthy, children need to be surrounded by as many people of different sex, interests, etc. Why would you keep them apart? Research shows the opposite is true and in Ireland new schools are mixed.

I sat on a Sport England group looking at the decline in girls interest in sport about 20 years ago and playground football was flagged as a potential issue even then ( I also suggested that PE teachers might be a bit of an issue but that was shouted down......)

When I was at school no balls were allowed in the playground at all and games were much more inclusive - quite a bit of catch but the girls at that stage were often as fast as the boys. I also don't recall there ever being much of an issue finding space to play. I do wonder whether cutting back on playground football might well make the boys more creative/inclusive about how they play

'cliques' - a group of friends. Imagine if adults were told they couldn't ever have a solid friendship group, and had to socialise with people they don't particularly like.
My DD was deliberately split from her nursery best friend going into primary - they do it to all the friendships at our school. I can't understand the school's policy on this at all.
It was pointless anyway as three years later they're still great friends, despite the teachers all saying they would immediately forget each other.

My own experience at primary school thinking back was the same

Do you not think the growth in interest in gymnastics is more of a favour? Nearly all my DD's friends do gymnastics; same with older sisters. I don't remember anyone doing it when I was at school; now it seems nearly all of them do! There seems to be a wider availability of dance classes now as well.

I also don't think that boys should necessarily have to not play a game they enjoy, just to include girls. Imagine if it was suggested the other way round?

I can't say I agree or disagree to be honest. Mainly as my child seems happy with it despite having some friends in the class environment. I imagine it would be more of an issue as children get older and less so at Ks1, but it's different for all kids I guess. I'm glad it's not had a long lasting impact on your child and their friend group!

Listen to this podcast. Talks about exactly that!

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/visible-women-with-caroline-criado-perez/id1627229311?i=1000567285700

It's not just a game they enjoy though is it. It's a culture which has traditionally been, to be honest, the route of much toxic masculinity. That's changing a bit now I think, mostly thanks to our brilliant women's teams, but I don't think it's essential that boys are allowed to play football at all.

This is interesting, because I was only reading an article about shared spaces a little while ago.

It was about sports spaces outside of schools - but it basically said that it was noted that sports areas are not used by girls past the age of about 5 or so, because they have to compete even to get in. I think it was Sweden (?) did lots of research and made lots of simple improvements like placing a second entrance to the playground and splitting out the ball games to a separate area.

Have a google and see if you can find what the hell I'm talking about it might help bolster your conversations!

Don't agree. Anti boy bias on here is ridiculous. DS loves his football; I'm happy he has something he enjoys. DD has her hobbies she loves as well.
If you think the women's team is 'brilliant' then why not encourage men and boys to play football too?

It's not an anti-boy bias at all. Boys are lovely. Football encourages a culture in which boys and men are not lovely unless you like hooliganism, violence, and using rivalry in the place of expressing emotions.

I'm not interested in football at all by the way, but I'd rather go to a women's match than men's and that's not because of the quality of the football but because the crowd is less likely to be violent. Squashing boys into that culture is just as damaging as denying girls space to exist.

Yes, this has been an issue in most of the primaries I’ve worked in, and I’m currently seeing the beginnings of it with my own daughter in Year 1 (who actually wants to play football with the boys but is either being left out entirely or made to be the goalie).

Some of the schools I’ve worked in have tried to implement things like girls-only football days, or segregated areas of the playground but in practice lack of space often makes it difficult. We’re also struggling a bit with a prevailing ‘boys will be boys’ attitude among some of the staff at DD’s school, which, as a governor there, I’m trying to push back against. But it’s a bit of an uphill struggle - I can completely see where the issues around girls’ lack of participation in sport/physical activity stem from. And tbh it isn’t just the school - parenting in general seems a lot more gendered among DD’s peers than I remember when I started out in teaching 15 years ago.

I don't think playgrounds should be halved but it does sound like the school aren't doing an awfully good job of 'policing' playtime.

If it is exactly as you described it, staff on duty aren't doing their job sufficiently.

I think I'd bring it up, potentially with a senior member of staff, as it's not a classroom issue, and enquire as to how they monitor this. If they haven't thought about it, it may spark them to. It's not something that would go down well with Ofsted - if a couple of female pupils were to say they feel unsafe at playtime (when questioned as a part of an inspection) that could lead to an unsatisfactory rating.

I was at primary school mid/late 60s. Playground had 2 halves, the boys half and the girls half. It worked. We liked it. The boys did their stuff and left us girls alone to do our stuff