Boys dominating the playground

[Namechangeforthiss]

I’ve noticed at DD’s school the enclosed, paved playground is quite dominated by boys playing their (rough!) games in the middle. Meanwhile the girls mill around the edges, seemingly a bit nervous to even cross it, let alone join in. I’ve noticed the boys also seem to feel more ‘entitled’ to play equipment as well as the playground space and will be quite rough and jostle past if a girl tries to play on it.

Do you think playgrounds should be halved, not to segregate by sex (and both sexes should be encouraged to join in any game they want) but to save some space for children who want to play less physical/rough games?

Feel free to tell me I’m being precious! (I have a son as well, not smug girl mum complaining about boys, but he’s only 1!).

If football can’t be played in a smaller area then it shouldn’t be played at all

This isn't particularly hard to understand.

Are you a boy mum?

Where I teach we only allow football in a fenced off area away from the main playground. Obviously that's not an option for all schools but its been many years since I worked anywhere that did allow football mixed in with general play. It's not safe in a crowded playground as the football players race after the ball without paying attention to others and they can get knocked over. I remember it happening to me several times when I was a small child. The football was only allowed in one part of the playground, but you had to walk though that part to get to the toilets....

I complained to our school that boys were allowed to play football and there was no provision to allow girls to do any sport (netball, skipping) during playtime. I was told girls can play football too, which I responded to by saying, yes of course they can but the boys won't let them and not all want to because they've already been socialised by age 7 into gendered roles, so practically they won't and need other provision. I was told I was being sexist.

I complained to my DD's school in similar circumstances. The classes get a weekly turn to use an outdoor court with basketball/netball posts at break time and the boys were dominating playing basketball and not letting the girls who wanted to play netball have a turn. My daughter wouldn't play with them as she said they were too rough.
I'm glad to say the school were very supportive and have made a point of facilitating alternating basketball/netball weeks now, my daughter was SO pleased I'm really glad I contacted them now.

Maybe that is an issue those schools need to address then.

Primary aged kids do tend to crash about and piss people off, it would be more abnormal if they didn't. I think the reverse is more damaging, ie you can't be boisterous and have fun in the way you would like for fear of upsetting a sensitive soul. I'm pretty certain there is no malice in a kid playing football, if that happens to 'piss off' another kid the issue is with the one who has the problem.

This entire thread is just a pile of hypothetical rubbish dreamed up by bored adults projecting their perceived ideas of sexism onto kids who are happily playing and totally unaware of these made up playground politics.

Relevance? I thought you said this wasn't about sex?

So my kids primary was a very old Victorian building/space. They had a rota of days for ball games and days with no ball games. Neither my ds or dd played football but they did "rush around" playing tag, bulldog and make believe games. You can't suggest to a school with no alternative area to ban football. You'd have kids pinging off the walls (I would have been one. I was someone's dd too, just one that loved football and rough and tumble)
You could advocate for alternating sessions of non ball games.

Or perhaps some of us are school staff who see this happening and have read all the research being posted all over this thread.

The children sent flying or having their games spoiled by other children chasing a football aren’t happily playing.

I love how you dismiss this as hypothetical rubbish despite all the people giving their own personal experiences.

👏🏻

Anecdotal.

The relevance is you seem to be pushing the best interests of boys very very very strongly while denying girls have any needs at all beyond ‘sitting at the side and colouring’. I assumed you either have no experience of raising girls or spend very little time around them. In my experience they love running about, climbing, scooting, throwing games and all the rest of it. This ‘awww they just want to chit chat at the side, let boyz be boyz’ is a nonsense in my experience.

for goodness sake my OP specifically says I don’t want sex segregation. How many more times must I say this?! for goodness sake my OP specifically says I don’t want sex segregation. How many more times must I say this?!

You might be the OP @Namechangeforthiss but you are not the only person posting on this thread. This has become a general discussion and I didn't aim my post at you specifically.

Many people on here have said that playground should be split by sex dvd I was simply saying that I don't agree with that view.

So are your nonsense posts.

boys usually played football - although they were alright when the girls joined (I remembered being a goal keeper a few times haha).
Thats interesting, @theprincessthepea In the research paper, referenced earlier in the thread, the authors describe how when girls were permitted to join in with the boys' football, they take up defensive positions like goal keeper, rather than being allowed to participate in the prestige roles of attacking & scoring goals.

Even when on the surface it looks like girls can participate in the boys game, there is still lack of equality.

And the research posted up thread?

So when those children who haven't been able to let off steam because football is banned then disrupt your DD's lesson, you won't complain? And why do you keep making this into a boys vs. girls issue? Some girls play football and some boys prefer drawing or pretend play.

There’s actually evidence to support what you’re saying, that in general girls end up using open spaces less because they feel that they are dominated by boys. Was reading about this a while back. Here’s an example.

https://www.makespaceforgirls.co.uk/resources/make-space-for-us

Definitely follow it up!

There are other games than just football

we didn’t allow football on the playground but all of the children managed to play games which involved running round

Sorry have only read OP posts not full thread, looks like some links may have been posted already!

I remember from my 70’s childhood one child would start a chant “ who wants to play….. bulldog!” or whatever and then children who wanted to play would link arms and join in the chant until there was a critical line of kids all marching a round chanting who wants to play etc.
problem was it used to take all break to get to that critical mass number 😂
70’s children were actually very equal opportunities!
then british bull dog was banned and football took over.
girls used to spend break with a paid of tights with a tennis ball in the end standing against the wall and wacking it about. We all had great skills with our tights and ball.
or playing slapping game until that got banned too

@MissMarplesNiece that’s super interesting. And there is me thinking I was being included haha! I also noticed the boys were much gentler when the girls played, almost assuming they had a responsibility to be nice. Or it would be the classic boys v girls. However in Secondary school there was no chance of getting in. Watching my DD in secondary school now it’s sad that she has gone from being sporty in the playground (in primary) to just walking around with friends (in secondary). Whilst boys continue to play sports during break if they want to.

I’m a teacher and most playgrounds where I’ve worked have dedicated quiet spaces for children to read, colour, do crafts and other more physical areas. Both are used by both sexes.

You can assume all you like but you would be wrong. I never said anything about boys interests being promoted over girls. I've stated that kids who like to run around should be able to do so, it doesn't matter what sex they are. You're argument is a very confused one. One moment you are saying girls are left to the side lines and in the next breath stating they like the more physical play too. So what is your point?

Active kids use up more space for their activities, that is the nature of active activities. Why would a less active child be bothered about the uneven playground spilt if they're happy doing their own thing in a smaller area away from the hustle and bustle. You're more bothered about this than the kids involved.

I've stated that kids who like to run around should be able to do so, it doesn't matter what sex they are. You're argument is a very confused one. One moment you are saying girls are left to the side lines and in the next breath stating they like the more physical play too. So what is your point?

My argument is very simple so I think your ‘misunderstanding’ is phony. Either that or you have comprehension issues. Girls want to run around but generally don’t want to play games that are quite as rough and physical as the boys games are. They should have space to play tag, statues, throwing games and all the rest of it. They shouldn’t be left milling around the outside to ‘chat and colour’ because they’ve just resignedly accepted that the boys are more entitled to the space for their own games.

You’d do well to read the studies here which back this up rather than ranting nonsense and dodging anybody who has experience of this or posts some evidenced research.

Girls that want to run around do run around regardless of the boys, they often get involved with the boys games! If people are raising daughters that can't stick up for themselves then that is a parenting failure.
Where are the actual figures on what percentage of girls who would like to run around but don't because they have accepted boys space allegedly rules?