Boys dominating the playground

[Namechangeforthiss]

I’ve noticed at DD’s school the enclosed, paved playground is quite dominated by boys playing their (rough!) games in the middle. Meanwhile the girls mill around the edges, seemingly a bit nervous to even cross it, let alone join in. I’ve noticed the boys also seem to feel more ‘entitled’ to play equipment as well as the playground space and will be quite rough and jostle past if a girl tries to play on it.

Do you think playgrounds should be halved, not to segregate by sex (and both sexes should be encouraged to join in any game they want) but to save some space for children who want to play less physical/rough games?

Feel free to tell me I’m being precious! (I have a son as well, not smug girl mum complaining about boys, but he’s only 1!).

Do they need any encouragement?

So let boys occupy 90% of playground space..?

@MaggieBroonofGlebeSt - I agree that it is great that there are other sports like gymnastics but then you have reports of girls not being allowed to turn cartwheels in playgrounds as they show their knickers - and a lot of gymnastics isn't really playground suitable. The issue that was identified was that girls didn't have room to run around and play sports in playgrounds as the boys took over almost all the space to play football and then excluded the girls from joining in or more subtly excluded them by never passing to them etc.

If I recall correctly the thinking was that if games like football didn't take place in the playground then other activities like running etc which are more equal in prepubescent children might be more prevalent (in games of catch etc) and might make children of both sexes think beyond the "box" of running around in the playground = football by default.

TBH nothing really came of that particular discussion as the group eventually went for the "this girl can" campaign instead.

There are sex based differences - it would be weird if there weren't - but they're much smaller than socialisation makes them.

We are, after all, overevolved monkeys, and monkeys don't make their girl babies sit and play quietly without spoiling their fur.

My primary school has a great environment for this to be fair. I think the key to success was small mixed year group classes - you were much more likely to find someone compatible on merit than just being another Y5 girl etc.

Errr no. They shouldn't be playing roughly and lunchtime staff should be ensuring everyone gets a fair turn on equipment.

My daughter's school has stopped football (pretty much all boys) being played at break times to allow for other activities which I support

There are sex based differences - it would be weird if there weren't - but they're much smaller than socialisation makes them

Yes - I’m absolutely on board with the idea that boys and girls are different in some ways, but I’ve been shocked by the level of investment of many parents in ensuring their boys fulfil all the tired masculine stereotypes and their girls all the feminine ones.

DD6 has recently declared herself a ‘tomboy’ simply because her range of interests spans science, Pokémon, football (and toilet humour!) as well as more typically ‘girly’ stuff. Her school classmates all seem to have much more binary interests - football parties for all the boys; mermaid/unicorn/princess ones for all the girls - and we’ve just had to turn down an invite for a full on spa/princess pamper party for one of her schoolmates because, at barely 6, DD isn’t keen on the idea of sitting around for 3 hours doing nails, hair and make up!

We have the same issue at our village primary school. It's been a year now. The Football Association have "Let Girls Play" on 8th March. School supports this. So then I go in and one day a week I do football for KS2 girls on the field at lunch. I'm a parent volunteer so I'm already checked. I am also a football coach and we have lots of keen girl footballers - we even have a girl footballer on our village sign. But the thing that doesn't happen is that girls don't play football outside of coached sessions. On enquiry it is because the boys dominate not only the space and the provided balls but also how the game is played. The girls don't want to play with them or play in that way (very keen, very focussed on winning, lots more body contact). It's actually a problem, the boys are overly violent so football is now banned at lunchtimes. But before that I provided four balls marked for Year 3 girls, Year 4 girls etc. There was uproar! Boys, particularly year 5 boys, were incensed that there was something football that was not specifically for them. Lots of PSHE was needed. And it didn't totally stick.

So yes. Op. It is a problem. Physical differences are starting to emerge between boys and girls at 8, as well as social. The odd girl who likes to play on the mainly boys team doesn't change that. Our SLT is on it, it is a work in progress. Adult supervision and PSHE and behaviour coaching are all part of it.

I remember it being raised in one of my first PGCE lectures 20+ years ago.

At DS's primary school there is half the playground for football, half for general play and an additional adventure zone and the zones rotate around different year groups.
Football can be an issue. DS likes it, but he often reports temporary bans when games get too gung-ho, normally involving certain regular names. Being small year groups, it doesn't take many being taken out of the equation to make playing it unviable.

My memory of junior school was two sports courts- being half the playground being dominated by boys playing football, and being 30 years ago, it was only boys. Girls would play in the other half including games like skipping and elastics. Some of the quieter boys would play games like Top Trumps.

I think zoning and breaking spaces up to meet a variety of play needs is the more practical approach.

What a load of nonsense. As a mum of 2 boys and a female myself I think this is coming across as extremely precious. All girls are not precious little wallflowers and all boys are not violent tyrants. If there is a specific issue that affects your child raise that with the school.

But actually most people have said this is an issue and my experience with Sport England suggests this too.

I dread to think how your boys will turn out if this is your attitude

Not nonsense in the slightest.
Lots of parents, teachers, lunchtime staff telling you this is true, as well as people’s own memories of childhood.

This isn’t boys vs girls, this is children who want to be quiet and play or chat vs children who want to run about and be loud.

Neither of those groups are wrong,

The primary school my youngest two went to solved this by banning the bringing in of footballs from home. Only the school balls were permitted, and only allowed to be used
in ‘the cage’. The cage was dedicated to one year group per day. (Breaks were staggered, so most year groups got two goes at the cage in a week, one lunch and one break)

The rest of the playground was for general play, including hula hoops, skipping, the climbing area, several seats and benches, a ping pong table, a gazebo, some picnic tables for packed lunches and/or colouring club (weather dependent), as well as a small green space where gardening was available.

The overzealous football group was furious at first, but with strict adherence to the new rules by staff most of the children had no choice but to get over it and deal with it. Some found other things to do on the days they weren’t playing in the cage, some stood and cheered on/offered advice to those actively playing. Those few who tried to bypass the rules had their ball games privileges restricted, which was quite effective after a while. Apparently football twice a week was better than no football at all for a half term.

It made the playground a far less toxic place.

Football is used as a stage for hooliganism, and violence those are societies problems not footballs.

If football didn't exist those issues would still exist, they'd just have a different stage.

Someone mentioned the issue of playgrounds being too small I'd agree that is a huge chunk of the issue.

I was looking at the size of the playground of my 60s built school vs the size of my kids 2000 built school the playground must be 2 to 3 times the size and the school had 2 classrooms less.

When I was at a Scottish high school in the '70s, there were supposedly separate playgrounds for the boys and girl.

In reality, the boys took up both playgrounds to play football. Some of us tried to use the girls' playground to play some form of catch, but we were pushed out by the boys - they just played through us.

We tried complaining to the teachers. They didn't want to know.

I'm now a semi-retired teacher. Before I retired from my permanent post, I was in middle management. I'd find myself at Extended Management Team meetings, arguing for girls to be allowed to have the opportunities that were supposedly in place for them. I recall being particularly angry when a girls' football initiative - designed to build confidence in young women - was usurped when the men on the EMT complained that it wasn't fair to the boys.

What age is this?
It was similar growing up with my school but mum secondary school was massive and so was easily avoidable. Plus the girls preferred to hang out in the hall or tutor rooms

At my school we have one day for girls’ football, one day for boys’ football and the other three days are for other games (rounders etc). That seems to work well and means that neither boys or girls dominate the space. I used to feel uncomfortable with segregated football but I think boys are much more likely to be socialised into football and the girls really do thrive when boys aren’t on the pitch. It’s not ideal though, I’d prefer a world where they played together tbh. Pre-puberty there is absolutely no advantage for boys physically, it’s all to do with socialisation.

Some years ago this situation arose in my children's school. The council had encouraged the desegregation of playgrounds in the name of equality.
The result was as described above . The boys took over the playgrounds for football games and the girls huddled together at the walla.
The problem was partly overcome by designating some areas as quiet areas by putting benches and tables there. Of course it was girls who liked to sit there although there was nothing to stop boys if they so desired. There was a long bit of playground, a bit narrower than the rest, which had hopscotch painted on the tarmac - it is amazing how children will accept that the lines are sacrosanct. There was enough space for skipping rope games and ball games.

Yes, boys in my daughter's class seem to dominate everything from competitions, classroom, playground. The school tends to post more photos of the boys and they all seem to have "big" personalities. They are the majority by a 3:1 ratio,so it's a point of contention that when choosing activities the boys always win... annoying.

DS had an assembly about this issue during the week. He told me the teacher said, "football is played by half the children but takes up three-quarters of the playground" and, "9/10 playground issues are caused by football". I work at a school and would say this is broadly true as well - although we have multiple outdoor spaces so only one playground is dominated by football.

To be fair DS's school has quite a few sporty girls who also play football so it isn't just a boy thing there.

Charming. My attitude that tarnishing all boys with the same stick and assuming that all girls are petrified of crossing a playground is wrong??

One of my boys would happily play with girls and is scared of balls hitting him. The other is very sporty and is on a rugby and football team. If either were having issues I would raise with the school.

My issue is the original poster suggesting that it is all boys that must be the issue rather than just speaking to the school about any genuine ideas she has that could improve the playground or asking support for her child

Let children be children and stop forcing adult's perceived injustices onto kids that just happen to like doing different things. Being a girl never stopped me from getting stuck in with the boys.

Deary me, you need to read my OP again don’t you?