To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

A lot of these parents seem to believe that doing anything "non-consentual" like taking something from a child, or having a boundary, will damage them psychologically.

This is where the toothbrush thing comes from. It's an extension of, you don't have to let grandma hug you because it's kind, and perfectly safe - validating the child's feelings (which happen to be wrong) is more important. You don't teach about reality and how to respond to people in a socially appropriate way, you have to get them to agree on some rational or emotional level. Which at that age they aren't capable of for the most part.

Thats exactly the point I’m making - not all children thrive in the same environments. School works extremely well for many children - but not all. Many children hated lockdown - my two loved it! I’m also extremely lucky as I’m self-employed so I can flex my hours to whatever is needed.

I think it’s really important to recognise that school resources - and teachers - are extremely stretched with large classes of 30. And if you have a child who learns differently, it’s extremely hard for those needs to be met within a regular school environment. Teachers can only provide so much, and the only option they have is to cater to the needs of the majority. This leaves some children never really reaching their full potential.

It’s horses for courses. I’m a big believer in education but I very firmly believe this can be achieved in many different ways. As a society I think we sometimes get a bit fixated on the way things “should” be done - and some parents are horrified at the notion that some children learn more effectively in a non-traditional way.

We’ve all been brought up to think of school as the only way to educate a child. But just look at the multiple posts on MN about the challenges with schools, and the complaints from teachers desperately trying to deliver what’s needed. You have TAs teaching classes regularly without a qualified teacher in the room, and teachers forced to take classes way outside their speciality. Our education system is in a bit of a mess, despite the superhuman efforts of teaching staff. When you consider all of this AND factor in that some children struggle with traditional learning styles then it’s not really a stretch to see how they’d be better off with home education.

My DD has just started art classes on Friday afternoons. A class group of four teens led by a qualified art teacher. She chooses art projects to match the group’s interests - currently clay but before Christmas it was portraiture - but she’s also teaching them about the artists who excel in that genre and about the style in general, so DD is learning art history too. Theres an online area for further learning between sessions with more info about the featured artists and their art style.

I believe in the value of schools. Passionately. I wouldn’t have been a school governor if I didn’t. But I also love the infinite possibilities that home Ed offers and how learning can be tailored to match the very specific needs of my DC.

As I said, horses for courses.

In all honesty, I don’t think you’re far wrong.

I didn’t pick up a book and learn a prescribed strategy - I just parented in the way that felt instinctive. I later learnt that my parenting would be described as gentle parenting…

I think much of what I do is just common sense. Clear boundaries, clear communication, and always following through on what’s said. Don’t scream at your kids and don’t pick battles without good reason. Look beyond behaviour to evaluate if it’s more than just hormones/tiredness/wanting to get their own way.

I don’t believe in “do what I say not what I do”.

I do believe in modelling the behaviour you want to see reciprocated.

The best piece of advice I ever got was “what’s poured into your child’s ears will come out of their mouth”.

Society loves to label things these days but I do think that many people who follow gentle parenting are actually just following common sense really. Other than those who clearly prefer a more authoritative/dictatorial style I reckon there are lots of parents that follow gentle parenting principles without realising that’s what they’re doing!

@neff

L.o.l 🤣
I hope one day "gentle parent advocate" is in one or many such an arkward situations example such as on busy train seats full up and a toddler child sitting behind her with her parents,
screams hell bells a lot of the time and kicks her seat in temper tantrums

or
is playing on of those irritating loud electronic game parents have given their child to keep them amused,
not bored on long train journeys,

Toddlers parents half ❤️ heartily attempt to pacify child in an attempt to appear to others as trying to do something or
just lovingly look on their offspring in a smug way
aren't we luckily to have such healthy vocally expressive child",
and gentle parent advocate has to endure put up with her " her advice" constantly.. 🙄

@SpidersAreShitheads

Excellent insightful post..

It’s been said many times, but the examples op gave are more permissive parenting than gentle parenting.

I see gentle parenting as respectful parenting- not treating children like naughty adults who need punishing all the time, but as people in their own right who are literally learning to be humans! I think it’s quite likely that someone who’s grown up with respect shown to them will have respect for their parents in turn.

This was definitely happening when my child was small. She's now 12 and now we are seeing the repercussions of lousy parenting in our schools with kids misbehaving in schools and not listening to the teachers 🤦‍♀️

Someone told me the other day that they are not cutting their toddlers hair until he is old enough to make the decision himself Ffs!

This is not gentle parenting. it’s just completely ineffective parenting. Gently removing stick/sand/child whilst explaining why, the child learns something from the experience is usually best.

I am an advocate for this kind of parenting - my dc are adults now - late teens and have greatly benefited from this approach. They are calm, composed empathetic as young adults, and we have had none of the usual teenage issues, as we talk things through. I put it down to having been treated with respect and kindness throughout their lives.

I once watched a mother try and argue with air hostesses that her son didn’t need to wear a seatbelt for the landing of the plane (in a storm) because he wouldn’t understand that he didn’t get to chose if he had to wear a seatbelt. Child was definitely under age 2 and had been running up and down the plane the whole flight whilst she read a book!

It got very heated and they ended up putting a seatbelt round him whilst she held him and then she waited until the staff were sat down and strapped in so right before landing and took it off 🤯! It was one of the most bonkers things I’ve ever seen.

I’m all for teaching kids we don’t have to have people touch us etc without our permission but surely there is also teaching kids that there are some moments that following the rules is non negotiable for everyone’s safety! Not that the child was old enough to actually understand these nuances in the first place!

Yeah I used to defend gentle parenting but the truth is that this is what it’s becoming. I’ve had to leave any gentle parenting groups because there’s so much of this kind of crap.

I try to do what I think is actual gentle parenting, but I probably wouldn’t use the phrase any more. Very firm boundaries, kept to with empathy. My children absolutely hear “no”, they’ll hear an age appropriate explanation with it. Tooth brushing is non negotiable but not “because I say so” (or “because god is watching” thanks dad), but “because this is important to keep your teeth healthy”.

Understanding child development and what is realistic to expect from children is key. The problem is people think things like “he’s too young to understand not to throw sand” and so don’t stop the behaviour but the point is that if they’re too young to control the behaviour themselves it’s your responsibility to control the behaviour - eg just take him away from the damn sand!

That’s not gentle parenting.

HTH.

I’ve had ‘Adam’s chosen to be naughty today’, while Adam whacks another kid to nick their scooter.

Erm…. Aren’t you going to tell him not to be?

Well it's certainly gentle.

But I wouldn't describe it as parenting 😂

What the hell has happend to parenting. Imagine what these kids will be like as adults! The mind boggles.

@Newchapterbeckons

After reading your post
I think 🤔 you should write a book on how to be a smugly perfect parent guide book,

Nobody's a perfect parent or perfect child

everyone have flaws and aswell as much better qualities too
there's obviously exceptions to the rule as in people who commit heinous crimes,

"Aren't you lucky you didn't have to deal with any teenage issues with your children,

I had to deal with as in my mid teenage years losing my mother who adopted me ,
After knowing her for only five years and previously, being in children's so called care homes
I went off the rails completely which i regret now,

So was not a perfect teenager or child... 🤔

I think it's one of those things where you get people trying to outdo each other. You might start with regular gentle parenting, respecting the child and understanding their maturity levels. You join a group for support and then people are agonising over the details and taking it to further extremes.

It's all very well saying that x isn't actually gentle parenting but when enough people do x and call it gentle parenting what are people supposed to think.

It would be funny if it didn't affect so many people! They don't seem to get that in order for the child to understand the words they are saying (as gently as they like) they need to actually show them what the words mean! Stop the action, say the words... surely?! I mean I've never looked into 'gentle parenting' but I don't hit/hurt, and I try not to shout.. I do however physically stop unwanted or harmful behaviour and say why...

I think people can be weirdly scared of their child crying sometimes. That is something I do see a lot! Child snatches and they ask for it back lots of times then just ignore it because they know their 'angel' will cause hell on earth if they were to stop them doing anything 🤣

Yes obviously. I know someone who gentle parented whose kids are now adults and it didn’t really end well for them to be honest. One of them has just about decided to sort their life out after and go back to education which is great. The other seems to have no boundaries or sense as an adult and still does stupid erratic things in the name of adventure, unfortunately putting others at risk too. Both dropped out of education completely as teens. I’ve seen the whole journey and that was enough to put me off.

A former friend of mine is this kind of parent and it’s the reason we aren’t friends any more. I gentle parent my son with autism and adhd. He has very firm boundaries but I don’t shout (or try my best not to) because it escalates the situation. We sit and reflect on any incidents and I’m happy to apologise to him when I get something wrong. But he is not allowed to hurt others or break rules without consequence.

former friend has a daughter the same age with autism and adhd too and she is allowed to do whatever she wants with zero consequences. She hits her mum (when calm and regulated so not in meltdown etc) and her mum will just whine at her to “pleeeeaase don’t hit me” whilst cowering away. If her daughter wanted my son to do something and he didn’t want to, the mum would be explaining to him why it’s important to do what her daughter wants because of her autism 🙄

I was a nursery bank worker for a number of nurseries, you could tell the kids of "gentle parenting" types almost straight away. Fast forward 10 + years worth of being around school children and it's carried on through as they've aged and boy have they raised some monsters who cause absolute hell for other children. Parents haven't changed "Oh hahaha (tinkly laugh), no no darling, we don't throw food" (no attempt to tell the child to actual fucking stop throwing the party food on the floor and stomping on it, no attempt to trll them to pick it up etc), "Oh, no no, darling, we don't call being ugly/stupid, kind words" (these are 8 year olds, no attempt to tell the little shit to stop actually bullying and making kids cry). Etc. They're a nightmare.

Gentle parenting should be about compassionate boundaries, the authoritative or 'gold standard' of parenting where the child is raised with both the right amount of love and boundaries.
Instead, because it's hard to do and because the word 'gentle' has been misunderstood, a lot of parents use it to justify their permissive parenting style, where the child has love but no boundaries, or downright neglectful parenting where the child has neither enough love or enough boundaries. Permissive parenting has been shown to have consistently bad outcomes for kids, and because these parents have co-opted the term it no longer means what it should mean.

The friend I visited at the weekend would definitely describe herself as a gentle parent. She was 30 minutes late to meet me at the train station because her NT 6yo wouldn’t leave the house 🙄

It’s just lazy parenting. Don’t want to be seen as the bad parent. Yes it raises arrogant children with a huge sense of entitled. I see it at school all the time. The kids are nightmares.

I think there's some misunderstanding about how children learn. So you start with a young child, say 18 months. She doesn't understand how she's meant to behave really. She hasn't got the maturity to do that. She snatches a car from her big sister. Obviously there's infinite ways to deal with this, but here's two.

Route A: Give car back to sister, saying, "No, don't snatch." Toddler is upset. Screams blue murder, snatches car again. Car is given back to sister, "No," is repeated. Toddler is removed from situation (could be different room, or play pen). Toddler has tantrum, then gets over it.

Route B: Say to toddler, "That's not very nice, dear, look your sister is upset. Do you want to give it back to her? No? How about you have this car instead? No? Oh dear, shall we have this one? Look, we can roll this one down a slope? Isn't that fun?" until either the toddler drops the car or the sister gives up. (Though if you've gently parented the sister, she might take more direct action herself to be fair!)

Route A seems unappealing. You end up with an upset toddler who doesn't understand she's done something unkind. However, she's done something unkind and had a negative experience as a result.

Route B however teaches her that if she snatches toys she'll get lots of parental attention and there's no downside.

I'm not suggesting that toddlers reason this through and are deliberately manipulative. But they're also not stupid, and they learn all the time. If an action gets a toy they want plus lots of parental attention, then surely that's worth repeating. In other words, people who don't take action because their children are too young to understand they shouldn't do something might be delaying their children's ability to understand that.

I'm aware that both routes I've suggested seem to fall within "gentle parenting" as defined by different people on here. But my experience of people who call themselves gentle parents is that they'd tend to go down Route B.