To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

It must be confusing for the children, being told " we don't do that thing" as they are literally doing the thing... It must seem their parent doesn't have a grasp on reality so why listen to what they say....

I don't think the dichotomy is gentle vs not gentle. I think the problem is low expectations vs high expectations.

I would never accept (for example) my dd pushing another kid over. I've seen a kid hitting the hobby-leader at a regular hobby my dd goes to, and the mum there got defensive "it's just what kids do". No it most certainly is not.

I think some parents think there's no point teaching their toddler not to snatch or push because it's just normal.

See also, teenagers not being able to cook meals for themselves because their parents think they'll set fire to the kitchen.

Parents micromanaging teen homework.

Some parents need to raise expectations.

I think those kids are going to struggle when they start school or go to a childminder who doesn't act like an emotionless robot.

Annoyance and frustration are two perfectly normal emotions. I don't think it does kids any good when adults constantly hide it from them.

Then a teacher raises their voice or shows a frustrated face and all hell breaks loose. The kid's in tears and the parents are demanding to see the Head 🙄

I understand the concept but fear that it can be taken too far by some parents to the point where they never set clear boundaries for children because they don’t want to upset the children and are too focused on “let’s understand why you are upset about this/behaving this way/hitting your brother with a stick” etc etc

Kids need love, security, empathy and guidance but also clear boundaries that help them become well socialised. Sure give kids the freedom to express their feelings but they also need to be aware of consequences.

the “use kind hands please” makes me cringe

The one that’s peaked my interest here is no brushing teeth.

I know a few mums like this from my NCT group. Bed times are non existent, bath time is optional, lunch is whatever the kids fancy, usually crisps and yoghurts. Everyone has their own parenting style which is fine, but what irks me is the bollocks comments that follow about the importance of choice and protecting their DC’s mental health. As if structure and routine is going to fuck up their kid.

I genuinely cannot understand the rationale on this one. How is a complete free fall through life beneficial to a child? The word ‘no’ does not exist to these children, they have absolutely zero emotional resilience. I really wonder how this will play out as they enter formal school settings.

My brother used to ask my nephew for permission to brush his teeth and if he said no he’d start pleading with a 3 year old. Db has one ds (now 10) and I have 3 dds 12-16, I was like “wtf?!”

one time we were going out so I’d got all 3 dds in the car (early primary ages) and db was negotiating with his 2 year old to stop playing and come and get in the car. I stepped in because mine were all toileted and waiting. I tickled him, picked him up, popped him in the car and said right let’s go. Db said “oh you’ve got the magic touch” er nope, just don’t have time to fuck about.

Now older, my dc really struggle with their cousin’s tantrums at 10.

you can be gentle and nurturing while implementing clear boundaries.

No wonder we have problems in our schools

I have an acquaintance like this.

She said it was gentle parenting, but from the outside it did seem more like she couldn’t bear the thought of upsetting her child by telling him off or refusing to meet his every desire. Regardless of how unreasonable the child was being. And I’m sure that we all know that small children can be ridiculously unreasonable with their demands at times.

Her child is now 10 and being unschooled. She says that the schools are too restrictive and inflexible for her child to cope with.

Well most of those examples are probably a parent having a one-way conversation with themselves because the child will have learnt to zone out mummy/daddy because what they say is irrelevant to them as there are no consequences to their behaviour. So they will just carry on doing whatever they want to do and go on their merry way. Sounds like a perfect way to raise a psychopath.

My mind boggles at the asking them to brush their teeth example. So if the child always says 'no' does that mean they won't push/encourage them to clean their teeth ever? What happens if they say they don't ever want to wash/bathe or brush their hair because 'body automony'? Do the parents just leave them to it?

I have to say I have never seen this sort of behaviour but I am rarely around young children now.

Exactly! Surely that would be serious neglect! Children need to learn that basic hygiene is non negotiable!

So all these kids are unvaccinated, right? Cos no child on earth wants a sharp needle stuck in their arm.

A lot of parents say they are "gentle" parenting when what they're really doing is lazy parenting.

omg there is a sand park close to where we live, I don’t care whose child it is you will hear me yelling “ Oi No throwing sand” I’ve lost count of the amount of times some kid has gone running to mummy and daddy to say that lady shouted at me. I’m waiting for the day one actually says something to me. My DCs are older now so should know better, but I’d not have an issue if someone told them off if I was slacking.

I can’t comment on the teeth thing though, 2 out of 3 loved brushing their teeth, no 3 poisoned herself eating half a tube of toothpaste at 2yo and was very sick. It’s taken 4 years and we have finally gotten her to not be afraid of brushing her teeth. For the most part we never pushed it, our goal has always been build her confidence up in time for her adult teeth which we are on track for.

Going to add that one child I shouted at was the grandchild of a national treasure ( actress) admittedly there were lots of kids involved, all older getting a bit carried away, no one paying attention as it was a summer evening and everyone was enjoying the beer garden situated next door, including my DH who was on child watch. I arrived and bellowed at all the kids as they were going nuts having a sand fight. There were a few burried heads by the adults but the kids just carried on playing less enthusiastically, said actress said sorry her and her dd weren’t paying attention, all I wanted to say was eeekkk can I have your autograph 😂

Gentle parenting is crap. Will have a rebellious teenager with no manner and no respect with their parents.

I rarely hear parents say 'don't do that'

It's always some long winded explanation, which kids either don't get, or don't care about

I'm curious about 'unschooling' and the alleged benefits. Ime, only child etc, but it has been absolutely beneficial for her in terms of making friends and learning to cope in society in general to go to a normal school. Unschooling just seems so backwards.

Here we go again. Every week there’s a variation of this post when everyone falls over themselves to slag off gentle parenting.

So yet again, for the infinite time, the example here isn’t gentle parenting, it’s permissive parenting.

I have autistic DC. We follow gentle parenting principles. I don’t ever shout because it just stresses everyone out and raises anxiety levels. That doesn’t mean they get free rein.

I do have boundaries and extremely clear expectations - and in a way that’s even more essential with autistic DC. They need to know exactly what’s expected of them, and why. I take the time to explain my expectations if it’s not obvious.

Also, we don’t have “punishment” per se but we have natural consequences which relate directly to the behaviour. I can’t remember the examples in the OP and I can’t seem to scroll back up, but natural consequences could involve immediately removing a child from a play area, or in extreme cases, taking them back home. I’ve done both over the years.

I don’t raise my voice with my children - ever - but I am very clear with my parenting. My twins are 14 yrs old now and they understand that in general, I’m a relaxed and laidback parent - but they know exactly where the boundaries lie. And they understand that I always follow through on consequences.

But I also believe in picking your battles, and not automatically saying no without considering if there’s actually a good reason. I believe that behaviour is communication and that it’s important to consider what might be at the root of behaviour.

I talk to my children with respect, and I expect the same back. And I get it. Even though they’re in the dreaded teen years 😂

I’m far from the perfect parent. I’m also autistic myself. There are many MANY things I recognise I could have done better. But the one thing that I think I got right is following a gentle parenting approach.

Unschooling was first proposed by an American educator called John Holt. It's actually quite difficult to do properly, parent intensive, because it means doing all kinds of real and interesting things with your child and teaching them to be competent at them. The child does have a lot of autonomy in terms of interests, but that also means they tend to be invested in the topic.

But some families let their kids play video games all day and call it unschooling, not what JH had in mind.

Thank you! I would still wonder about the benefits though, even if done 'right'. That said, I've only ever read about it and not come across it irl.

I thought unschooled was a typo and she meant homeschooled

Re. Not wanting to brush teeth etc, shower.

Are we going to end up with adults who refuse to wash/brush their teeth, because their parents were too bloody weak to insist when they were children?

The problem is that for some children, school isn’t beneficial. Depends on the child, depends on the school, depends on the peer group.

Not all children learn in the same way and not all children flourish in a school environment; they merely learn to cope.

Unschooling doesn’t mean no education and it doesn’t mean no socialisation. In many places there are very active home education communities where children have just as many opportunities- if not more - to learn about social rules and to engage with others.

My DC were in school until COVID, Y5. However they did so well at home during lockdown and quite literally blossomed that we took the decision to home educate permanently. I was a senior school governor with many years of experience and I loved our school so it was a very big decision for me. I still believe in the value of schools - I just recognise there are other valid options, and understand that school isn’t always best for every child. My DS was in special school and DD was unlikely to ever be able to sit exams due to her additional needs so the decision was probably easier for us.

Some of the home educating parents I know are phenomenal in seeking out stimulating and challenging learning experiences for their DC. Some of them “unschool” but all that means is they don’t learn school style with classroom type lessons or a fixed schedule.

Of course, there are also lazy home educating parents whose DC would be better off in school. But ime I would say they’re the minority as home edders are subject to intense scrutiny from their LA.

" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we?

Well at least she's consistent hahaa

Any criticism of gentle parenting on MN is met with 'that's not gentle parenting'. All gentle parenting seems to mean on MN is the type of behaviour management that most people have used for the past 20 years ie showing some empathy towards your child and not mindlessly screaming at them.

We also had to home ed for covid, but neither of us were natural educators. It was very stressful tbh. It definitely wasn't beneficial for our daughter. So I definitely appreciate school in that regard, she comes home happy every day and that certainly wasn't our experience trying to do the work during COVID.

It seems that this gentle parenting is mostly done with male children.