To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

And not brushing teeth? The dentists will do well

I agree.
I wonder if the children zone out to all the parent input through the day.

I knew one person who wouldn’t ever say no. The kids threw chairs and were rude all the time always having to be the centre of attention . They are now rude, entitled and obnoxious pre teens of course. There was never going to be another outcome!

I tend to move my 13mo DD a bit away in situations that require explanation i.e. when she's making a fuss because the bubble machine at baby club is waved over all the kids, not just her. We step back a bit and point out how the other children are having a turn but it will be her turn again soon and lots of "ooooo aren't the bubbles pretty to watch!" Sometimes it works beautifully and she is very happy to watch and clap and wait for her turn, other times she ignores me completely and howls her fury for all to hear. When that happens, I tend to take her over to look out of a window or whatever other distractions are available. Kids are unpredictable and what works one day won't work the next so maybe Stick Mum had brilliant success with getting her DC to look at a stick last time and was hoping for the same miracle! 😂

That's insane. Also, how does it work if they refuse the next day and the day after that? I used to go to school with a girl who never brushed her teeth- her breath stunk and her teeth were coated yellow. When I asked her about it she just laughed and said she couldn't be bothered to do it. She also ate loads of sweets.

I bumped into her several years later and she had had all of her teeth removed and had false ones. It made me feel really sad for her.

I knew loads of other parents like this when my DC were small. PPs are right it’s not “gentle parenting”, but these parents do think it is and that they are right. I’ve had baffled discussions about it where I’ve been told that the word no is bad and boundaries are bad and children shouldn’t be “hemmed in” by what adults think is best. No bedtime, banning the words “no” and others like “hate”, letting their DC hurt others and then just pleading meekly with them.

This was 15-20 years ago so it’s not new! I was amazed as I’d thought I was the hippy-dippy one who would be a lax parent. But it turned out that saying no and removing my child if they were misbehaving or removing a toy if they’d snatched it etc were shockingly strict!

I think a lot of parents have got confused by this stuff. We have become more gentle, we don’t hit children and we understand they have rights. And that’s good IMO. But some people seem to think that saying no, or saying a behaviour isn’t ok, or making your child upset in any way, even if that’s telling them it’s bedtime or that they can’t stay at the playground if they hurt other kids, is child abuse. They’re terrified to make their child unhappy at all ever, even though tiny kids will cry and kick off when they’re told no, that’s normal. It totally amazed me.

To all those saying "gentle parenting is just good parenting", yes, that's kind of the point. The alternatives are the shitty permissive parenting described up thread or the less gentle variety where kids are regularly subjected to shouting and/or physical punishments. Those spouting this argument perhaps were never exposed to "behave or you'll get a smack" threats as a kid, but many others were and it's something gentle parents strive to avoid. Threats of violence are not ok and do not build trust and love.

It's not though, because any time I've ever said anything about gentle parenting that isn't 100% positive I've been told its not gentle parenting. Even if it's what I've read or what my well educated friends have read. There was an example upthread that it's not screaming at your child or hitting them. I school, we'd deem that a safeguarding issue. It's literally child abuse. If that is what gentle parenting is not, surely we can just call it parenting, ie what the vast majority of parents do. Those of us who don't call ourselves gentle parents certainly aren't screaming at or hitting our children.

I have to agree with BertieBotts. Its not a defined term.

In my head, gentle parenting was trying not to use rewards and punishments to create the behaviour you want, but using a strong connection to enforce those boundaries. You still have the boundaries. You do things like model the behaviour you want, tell stories reflecting the behaviour you want, or explaining why the behavior is needed. But it has to be age appropriate. No 2 year old is going to understand a long speech on morality.

So the stick thing, traditional parenting could include 'give me the stick and you get a treat', or 'give me the stick or i will take away your toy'.
Wheras gentle parenting would be 'give me the stick as you are going to hurt someone', said respectfully, at thier eye level and your body language makes it clear you arent moving on until the stick is safe. And they are supposed to give the stick because its the right thing to do. It works sometimes. In fact very often with my autistic child in particular.

I think this is called ‘neglectful parenting’?

Why is this an issue?

I am approaching retirement age, my own childhood was very strict, lots of thrashings from Dad 😥. Therefore I raised my own DC with a lot of fun and laughter. They were never smacked or made to sit on a naughty step, never felt the need to as they knew the rules from being tiny.
I can't ever remember them hurting another child or each other. I did scold, absolutely, when they are small they need to know that you are the parent and that you are in charge.

I agree with others who have pointed out that the examples described are not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting is based on deep relational connection, does come with clear boundaries and developing expectations, and is non punitive/ not traditional authoritarian.

The examples being described here are permissive parenting. I’m not sure how the term was highjacked, but the fact that it has been makes the distinction difficult for those who haven’t looked into it in depth. Many permissive parents are calling themselves “gentle”. I think “compassionate” is maybe a better description. All behaviour is communication.

As a parent of a 16 and a 12 year old, and a “gentle” parent, my children have never behaved in the ways described here, and I have never been in a habit of negotiating the basics of necessary care habits. They’re generally good, respectful, relaxed kids who make occasional developmentally expected mistakes or poor choices, and we talk about things and ensure they know right from wrong and how to treat others.

My friend works in pre school education. What she says is eye opening, parents not wanting to upset their children by putting them to bed, instead letting them fall asleep and only then moving them. Obviously due to lack of sleep the children are foul tempered, so smacking other kids, again parents won’t tackle that behaviour.

I know the term gentle parenting means something else entirely, but that term has become an excuse not to parent at all unless it’s an easy pleasant bit of parenting. Issue being that at some point the child has to engage with an educational setting where of course all of that won’t be tolerated. It’s a huge shock to the system.

All through our lives we get disappointed, we don’t get what we want, things aren’t easy, and how are these children cope with all of that? My parents did probably too much to shield me from reality but reality hits you, and there’s nothing Mummy and Daddy can do. Childhood as well as being nurturing should also be preparation for real life too, if you don’t give your children the tools to be resilient then they’ve been failed to an extent. Resilience comes with having boundaries, hearing that you can’t have something, and then real life and other people isn’t so much of a shock.

It does take the ability to not be popular with your child. If I’ve had my kids being utterly fed up with me saying no to something, I tell them I’m their parent, not their best mate, and sometimes I’ll be unpopular with them. That’s part of it. You have to be able to say no when your child is being out of order. Explain obviously, but whatever the explanation it’s still a no.

If they cared about hurting somebody they wouldn’t be hitting them with a stick to start with. The ‘right thing to do’ is lost on 2 year olds I’m afraid. Empathy hasn’t even started developing at that point.

Empathy isn't a skill, it's a personality trait, the ability to relate to the feelings of another. Some people naturally have more than others.
These are the children who wouldn't want to hit Johnny with a stick if they thought and remembered that it hurts, because they don't want Johnny to be in pain. These are the children who may only need a little gentle reminder.
Other children don't actually care that much about whether Johnny is hurt or not. They are self focused with low natural empathy and struggle to see beyond their own fun in hitting Johnny. You can tell these children all you like about how it hurts Johnny, but ultimately you won't train them to feel something they don't, so you have to instead teach them that actions have consequences for THEM, as oppose to focusing only on the impact on the other child.
GP ignores variations in personality and empathy levels which is why it fails some children.

Gentle parenting isn't about zero discipline, which seems to be how some people take it

Body autonomy for teeth at 2.5 equals to bad teeth in future which to me is neglect same with some of the other things
Making sure your child is likable will follow with them for years and even shape who they are as they grow due to how their treated/accepted

That all sounds like lack of parenting and laziness to not deal with the tantrums we all know toddlers have 😂

It's just as bad as parents that interpret "discipline" as whacking, physically attacking or verbally terrorising their kids. Neither responses are effective and neither produce the desired behaviour in future.

Gentle parenting is fine. However, you can't claim to be a gentle parent if you don't actually parent your kid. That's just laziness.

Thats not gentle parenting. Thats mothers being clueless how to handle situations.

Generally its works better to tell a child what to do rather than what not to do. Its clocks in better in their brain.

I think you're mixing up gentle parenting with permissive parenting.

Agreed. My approach has been short, firm instructions without explanation. Because expecting a 2 year old to understand empathy or morality is developmentally inappropriate - this tends to start developing nearer to 4. At this age it’s more about stopping them hurting themselves or others, until such a time that the ‘chats’ can start about why something was right/wrong. I think we see children now as small adults capable of secondary or extended thinking even as toddlers. They’re not.

Gentle parenting is effective for the 0.1% of the population who use it correctly.

The rest say they are gentle parenting, when what they mean is "we don't say no, we don't have mealtimes or bedtimes and quite frankly, we are scared of our two year old."

I was at the bus stop last night and there was a very grizzly child right next to me who was relentless. Mum was being very quiet as she tried to talk him down. Then came some light threats "you won't get [insert treat of choice]". Eventually she caved and cried "Jesus Christ! Will you just shut UP!". Said child did indeed shut up. I wanted to applaud her (I know, I'm very bad).

Yeah, you are bad.

yelling a young child to shut up is shit parenting.