Excluding a friend?

[StephPlum]

In the last few years my friendship group has settled into a nice little group of 5.
We have a WhatsApp that's busy with chat and support and we often get together with or without families. Husbands all get along too.
Before Xmas friend 1 told friend 2 that she's moving her child to a new school because of bullying that friend 2's child was involved in. Friend 1 insisted she didn't want to fall out, but friend 2 was upset, said it was all liesbso they had words and friend 1 left the WhatsApp.
Friend 1 has kept in touch with everyone except friend 2. When sending invites to stuff friend 1 includes everyone (Inc. Friend 2, who won't join in).
Friend 2 won't join anything that friend 1 is involved in. So we've had a few get together with just friend 2.
Friend 1 found out about this and is really upset. She thinks they should both be included in everything, and that we are actually preventing a reconciliation by enabling friend 2 to just leave her out. She left the WhatsApp group herself but is now feeling excluded.
If we didn't do anything with friend 2 separately she wouldn't see any of us.
Aibu to leave out friend 1 sometimes?

For friend 1 to take the step of moving her child to a different school the bullying must have been quite serious. Sorry I feel sorry for friend 1. Friend 2 sounds like a drama queen who has totally minimised her child's behaviour.

Unfortunately some parents find it incredibly difficult to accept there "darlings" would bully. I have had to pull back from a small group of mums because one of the mums children have been bullying my child. Everyone except the mum and this small group of mums who are friends know these kids are nasty bullies and cause endless trouble in school. It doesn't bother me as we were not close friends but I feel sorry for your "friend".

I am glad you are actually seeing the light @StephPlum , so many OPs stick to their original stance whatever posters say and you wonder why the hell they bothered to do a thread.

Hopefully now you can see how you are all pandering to Queen Bee who has had NO change in her kid's schooling despite her child being a bully.

She has had NO CHANGE in her friendship group apart from managing to have F1 sidelined by you all by giving an ultimatum.

You sound very scared of being the next one in line to be sidelined if you dare to tell her she is wrong.

Please stop pandering to and enabling this silly, bullying woman who has bull-dozed her way to the top by threats and tantrums.

Sorry OP, it really does come across that you are more concerned with F2’s reactions than what F1 and her child went through, a good parent wouldn’t say such awful things about a child, she just doesn’t want to admit that her own child has been unkind so she being very defensive.
Personally I think you should always invite both to any events you arrange so it’s always fair, it’s up to them to attend or not.

I was Friend 1 in this situation (although it was a wider friendship group and I did not try to discuss it with Friend 2 after she dismissed it as "boys will be boys" following the headteacher calling her in for a meeting about her bully child). I simply quietly withdrew and I am not longer part of that friendship circle as it was clear that the others did not wish to rock the boat. It was simply unfair for me to expect my child to have to socialize with the bully child outwith the school setting when bully child's behaviour was going unchecked. Initially I was disappointed that the others did not offer any support at all, subsequently a few did after they heard the full extent of the bullying from other sources but, by that time, it was clear that it was Friend 2's group.

If you value Friend 1 then please let her know and treat her well as it sounds like she has valued your group

So to summarise:

Friend 1 has a child who has been bullied either directly or indirectly by Friend 2's child.

The bullying got to the stage where Friend 1 had to mover her child to another school in order for her to be happy and confident again.

Friend 1 tells Friend 2 that her child had some level of involvement, which Friend 2 KNOWS is true because she spoke to her child about not excluding Friend 1's child.

Friend 2 then calls Friend 1 and her child liars and her sweet angel would NEVER. Friend 2 also boohoos to the rest of the group about how awful Friend 1 is.

Despite ALL OF THIS, Friend 1 still wants to reconcile with Friend 2 and STILL INVITES HER TO THINGS. But Friend 2 refuses and continues boohooing about how mean and nasty Friend 1 is.

And by your actions, you've sided with Friend 2. Whether you meant it or not, that's what you've done. I'd send Friend 2 a message basically relling her that Friend 1 is going to be invited to future gatherings, Friend 2 is also very welcome to join but you will expect her to be an actual adult about it and at least be polite to Friend 1. Then it's all on her - quite frankly Friend 2 sounds like she needs to grow up and get over it.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree does it?

F2's son is literally copying her behaviour, she has done to F1 what her child did to F1's child and you and the rest of your 'friends' are going along with it.

Reading your posts F2 reads like a bit of a bully. She's pushing you to do as she pleases.

I feel sorry for F1 who didn't do anything wrong in the first place.

I would invite both to group events. And see them both individually,

And don't try to make F1 fix this. She's not the issue here

Sounds like you’ve sided with friend 2 which was the wrong decision IMO.

Shes fallen out with friend 1 calling her and her DD a liar because they claimed her DD was a bully. F2 sounds like a bully herself.

Invite them both to events and if F2 doesn’t want to go that’s her choice but why should F1 be excluded because her DD was being bullied?

Also put yourself in F1s shoes and imagine it was your DC being bullied by one of your friends DC. You’d be so upset to be called a liar. It’s not F1 who needs to apologise it’s F2.

I would dump F2, she’s a bully, only interested in herself.

And do you seriously think she would move her year 6 child to a different school if she wasn’t being bullied?

The more I read off your updates the more I can see exactly the kind of character F2 is - and I can see why her child is a bully.

You have a WhatsApp group already in place without F2 but with F1, just switch to using that. I think F2 needs a taste of her own medicine 🤬

When DS kids was in primary I had a similar situation - F1 confronted F2 about F2DS bullying F1DS. They fell out and never spoke again. I asked my DS and he said it was six of one and half a dozen of the other. Not bullying, they just didn’t get along.

How sure are you F2 child was bullying F1 child? I think you said the school had a word but not more, as they hadn’t actually witnessed any bullying? So possibly F1 and F1 child have made a massive drama out of a minor playground spat and now F2 is really upset and feels uncomfortable socialising with F1 - who btw sounds pretty assertive and maybe a bit self righteous?

I would see F2 separately to show support to a friend who is upset and hasn’t really done anything wrong.

Friend 2 is acting like a bit of a child so I'd treat her that way and say something along the lines of

F2 look there clearly has been issues between x and y and it has caused this rift between you and f1. F1 is prepared to put it to bed and move on. At some point we as parents have to step back and allow are kids to be friends or not be as they will. None of us know all the ins and outs of why x and y fell out. Or where the fault lies. And it is what it is, Two kids falling out. I don’t think badly of x or of y about it. Nor do any of us. X has moved schools and so there won’t be any further ongoing issues. The kids can be friends or not but that is outside of our friendship as adults.
So with that being said let’s all just move on. None of us want to exclude you or for you to feel excluded nor do we want to exclude f1. So we will continue to include you both going forward.
We have decided to do A next week what time works best for you?

Kind of making it sound like it's a done deal that you're all going to remain civil and get along and not exclude anyone. Or take sides.

So you've decided F2s dc hasn't done anything wrong even though you don't know these people.

How about looking at facts rather than basing your assessment on some unrelated story

A) people don't move their child in year 6 unless they are very sure there is a problem
B) the school and F2 spoke to F2s child about excluding people
C) F2 is the Queen B of the school

Its far more likely F2s dc is a bully because they've learnt it from their parent. Even the OPs description of the two parents paints F2 in a bad light and F1 as a calm quiet person.

Is that you F2? You are literally the only person taking your position

year 6 kids are absolutely able to be hideous arseholes. The worst know exactly what they’re doing. The response of “no more than normal playground stuff” is grotesque. There should be no “normal” playground exclusion or horribleness - the fact your friend 2 accepts this as a response shows she is a selfish person. Ask her if she suffered real bullying at school because if eager she hasn’t based on that response.

glad your friend 1’s son is happier in his new school.

btw think about this conversation and how reminiscent of kid bullying this is - as adults you shouldn’t need a poll to tell you excluding anyone is not ok.

your friend 2 needs to stop victim blaming - even if her kids wasn’t the worst of the bullies he’s still a bully.

oh and ps if friend 2’s son WASN’T a bully, he’d have said Yes the boy is being bullied. He wouldn’t have friend to downplay it/wriggle out of it by saying it was just “normal” playground stuff.

Ok, so F2 is the queen bee. It's like in bloody Motherland, you're the Anne to her Amanda. You need to recognise that F2 is a manipulative cowbag!

Yep this poster was likely the bully at school just doesnt realise it.

It seems friend 1 knew what would happen when she stood up for her child and is desperately trying to hold onto the friendship.

Friend 2 sounds genuinely awful.

I don't like the sound of friend B.

Friend 2 is a bully, manipulating and the Queen Bee and you are pandering to her excluding friend 1 who appears to be very reasonable.
Are you all afraid of friend 2?
Don’t want to upset her because it could be you facing her wrath next?
You really need to give your head a wobble and stand up for friend 1 who has gone through some very upsetting stuff with her child without the proper support from her friends.

Perfect analogy

Friend 2 sounds like a top manipulator who has got you exactly where she wants you. Feel very sorry for friend 1. No one would move their child in year 6 without really good reason.

F1 has been considerate and lovely, and F2 has been gossipy and manipulative.

I think you really need to consider what kind of friends you want to have.

Stephanie Plum would NEVER.

Is friend 2 actually more upset or is friend two simply louder?

Friend 1 tried to stay friends but left after some sort of confrontation with friend 2. Isn’t it obvious that friend 1 must be very upset and or hurt??

friend 1’s child was bullied badly enough to change school. Who wouldn’t be upset about this??

friend 1 tried to stay friends. Friend 1 is still trying to include friend 2.
and now friend 1 has found out that you were essentially facilitating her exclusion?? Which is a form of bullying and precisely what friend 2 tried to excuse as “normal playing round stuff”?

I feel sorry for friend 1! friend 2 sounds awful.